How much power for a sliptip?

[leighdu]

i can get a cheap ice pick and i was wondering how much rubber is best to use?

How many 16s for an 8mm spear and ice pick, 3-4?
and how many for a 9.5 spear and ice pick , 4-5?

[Bill McIntyre]

I may be missing the point, but I don't think a slip tip is the determinant of how much rubber you need. I use slip tips on all my guns, but the rubber I use is a function of how heavy the guy is and how thick the shaft is.

Heavier guns can handle more rubber without having a recoil problem. Heavier guns can handle thicker shafts without having a recoil problem.

On a couple of relatively light guns, I use 9/32" shafts and three 9/16" bands. On a couple of heavier guns, I use 5/8" shafts and three 5/8" bands.

On the thinner shafts, I use slip tips made from 5/16" stock. On the thicker shafts, sometimes I use slip tips made from 3/8" stock, although I still prefer to use the slimmer ones.

[leighdu]

i would proberly be using an ice pick and i can use 4 16s on my gun without to much recoil.
i was mainly wondering if you would need 1 extra rubber for a sliptip comared to a hawiian tip

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by leighdu

i would proberly be using an ice pick and i can use 4 16s on my gun without to much recoil.
i was mainly wondering if you would need 1 extra rubber for a sliptip comared to a hawiian tip

If your gun handles 4 16s without too much recoil, it couldn't handle any more just because you put a slip tip on it. If anything, it could handle less rubber with a slip tip because of the added weight and frictional resistance.

[Poida]

What's a slip tip? How does an ice pick come into the equation?

[leighdu]

a slip tip is a detachable tip that comes off once it has penetrated a fish and is connected to your shaft by cable or cord. There used so big fish dont bend your shafts and becuase they have good holding, there are pro and cons of using one.

an "Ice Pick" is just what the riffe sliptip is called

[Bill McIntyre]

Here are examples of slip tips, one using steel cable, and the other using Spectra.

[strangelove]

Bill

The tip with the spectra , is it an Alexander tip ? Looks like , how did you attach the spectra line to tip (simple knot ?). I was actually thinking about doing that with my Alexander tip, the stiff cable got damage with my first point blank shoot.
Could you give me the line dimensions that you used please.

StrangeLove

[Bill McIntyre]

The tip with the Spectra was made by Masahiro Mori (morifish@aol.com).

There is a slot cut in the side of the tip and a little pin going across the slot. The Spectra loops around the pin and then in threaded back into itself just like with hollow polypropylene ski rope. The details are rather difficult to explain, but Mori could tell you how to do it.

I'd like to put Spectra on my Alexander and Aimrite tips, but I don't know of a good way to do it. BTW, that other tip I showed was an Aimrite, which is just a slimmer copy of an Alexander and more suitable for 5/16" and 9/32" shafts.

Here are photos of a Kitto tip rigged with Spectra. When I bought it, he was using cable. But later when he started using Spectra, he put directions for rigging on his web site and I managed to do it myself with Spectra I bought from him. But now you can order the tips rigged with Spectra by him.

You can see that it has a replaceable screw-on point. The Spectra is doubled my threading it back into its own hollow core with a very small loop in the front end. You can see how much of it was doubled by noting that small tuft of Spectra sticking out of the side. You use a fine wire through the loop to pull the Spectra up through the hole in the center of the tip, then put a short piece of heavy mono through the loop and pull it down tight against the body of the tip. When you screw the point back on, it captures that piece of mono so that it won't slip out.

[strangelove]

Bill

What is your favorite slip tip ?

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by strangelove

Bill

What is your favorite slip tip ?

That's a tough one. I use 9/32" and 5/16" shafts, so I like tips made from 5/16" stock so that they are light and hydrodynamic. I think I prefer the Aimrite tip design. It, like the Alexander, is made so that the adaptor bottoms out in the hole in the tip. If it hits a rock, the force is absorbed by the poiint of the adaptor rather than the rear shoulder of the tip where it rides on the adaptor. I wish I could put spectra on it though. It may not really matter much in terms of drag, but I like the spectra simply because it doesn't get kinked up. But of course I'm not shooting giant tuna or grouper that hole up in the rocks. I would want cable for that.

The Kitto tip has spectra, but the rear shoulder of the tip absorbs the force where it rides on the adaptor, and can get blown out. You might think that the replaceable point is a plus if you shoot a rock. But a friend shot a rock and had to replace the entire tip because not only was his point mushed, but the rear shoulder of the tip was split wide open.

The Mori tip is slightly thicker, somewhere between 5/16" and 3/8". It can be ordered with spectra, which is a plus. However, take a look at the adaptor design. Rather than a ball and cone, it is a long taper like the Riffe Icepick, so the tip has to come way off before it can turn. This may have recently cost me the loss of an $800 dollar gun, but I don't want to bore you with the details here, and I can't be sure anyway. However, I am told that while he says there is no problem with that tapered adapter, he is now selling them with ball and cone adaptors, but I have not seen one yet. Those tips might be a good choice for a 5/16" shaft. I don't think he offers an adaptor for a 9/32" shaft, but even if he did, I think the tip might be too heavy to make a good match.

I should hasten to add that this is all just opinion, and not as scientific as it may sound. Being a better diver would be a lot more important for me than my choice of tips.

[strangelove]

Many Thanks Bill , that was very good information, I've actually own three slip tips a riffe, kitto and a Alexander all rigged with ss cable but I've only used for one season. You are right on the money, my Alexander tip (the cable) was damage on my first shot last year, I wish I knew that last year. The point blank shot buckle and damage the cable.
Based on your input I should get a aim right, I am not too impressed with the ring on the Alexander or Kitto they rusted to fast, the riffe has a little more quality but I don't like the design. But like yourself the shape on the Alexander is very good.
I am trying to contact Mr. Mori perhaps with the new coupling design and the spectra line I can get the a good combination. I has not email me back yet.
Last year was the first time I've actually used a slip tip, I did accomplish my goal, land every fish I hit. But I've also miss more shots then usual.
Do you have any input on using slip tip to fish for grouper or none pelagics in general, It was little agravating having to adjust and look at tip every dive, may be if fishing for grouper I should stick with a regular shaft.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by strangelove

Do you have any input on using slip tip to fish for grouper or none pelagics in general, It was little agravating having to adjust and look at tip every dive, may be if fishing for grouper I should stick with a regular shaft.

I used crude slip tips for grouper and jewfish back in my mispent youth in the 50s, but I'm afraid I don't have any current experience. I do believe that most So Cal divers who hunt grouper and pargo in Mexico use slip tips, but I hope they will correct me if I'm wrong.

One thing I do know is that its much more expensive to hit rocks with a slip tip as compared to a flopper shaft. For that reason, I almost never shoot at calico bass and halibut in California, but of course I'm giving up something with that choice.

Of course you are more likely to bend a shaft with a flopper as opposed to a slip tip. I guess is is largely a matter of priorities and the importance you place on holding fish vs. money.

But I really feel uncomfortable casting myself as an expert on this subject. I think gonetobaja is on this board, and he regulary takes charter trips of divers to Mexico and they shoot a lot of pargo and grouper. I hope he will butt in and give us his opinion.

[Bill McIntyre]

For what its worth, I just got a copy of an email from Mori showing his new adapter. If you look at the earlier photo I posted, you can see that it used to be a long taper. Now its like the Alexander and Aimrite. Here is his text and photo.
******************************
That tip is the low profile spectra tip for 5/16" shafts. I have recently changed the adaptor design to allow it to toggle a little faster, but essentially, it is the same tip.

The tip rigged with cable, is $70 and rigged with spectra, it is $85, plus $4.00 shipping within the U.S.

To order, you send me a check to the following address..

Masahiro Mori
519 W. 220th St. #31
Carson, CA 90745
(310) 628-8082