ciguatera poisoning in florida and other reef fish what to do?

[popolarbear]

im facinated with the idea of testing(tasting) all those odd looking fish that abound the reefs. in particular those parrot fish. afew pals have on occasion tested(tasted) them and they are tough but very good. online many warnings about reef fish and Ciguatoxins that they bio- accumulate. apparently some parrot fish may be ok. but others may be loaded with this poison. and once your exposed you can get flash back reactions up to 20years later. with symptoms similar to MS. very scary. also just about any ocean fish could bio-accumulate and give this poison although reef fish get this more. ....my question to the board is.. for a new guy. how to know what fish to avoid and what fish are probably safe or safish to consume. ive heard the fly test. and im not sure if i believe in the $30 tests kits. also not sure if i can afford that to test a filite that may only be a few pounds anyways....im dying to sample some reef fish.....

[blaiz]

I dive in Hawaii where ciguatera is a problem as well. The crapy thing is that there is no real easy or 100 percent fool-proof way to tell if a fish has the ciguatera toxin. The test kits are ok but will often give false posotives if the testing situations arnt perfect. They dont have much of a shelf life so its hard to find a shop that even carries them. Ordering online is an option but then again if you keep it for to long its no good.

The fly thing is just a rumor. The cuguatera toxin has no taste or odor, it cant be cooked off, and has some pretty gnarly effects.

My only advice to you would be to talk to other local fisherman, divers and find out what species are more likely to have the toxin. Then just try to avoid those particular fish. Another factor is size and age. The older and bigger the fish the higher the concentration of the toxin can be.

In hawaii we have many species that are known to have the toxin. We also have a local fishing news which publishes all reported cases of ciguatera in the state, which fish it came from, which island, and which particular area. Some areas are worse than others, some island are worse than others. I read the paper each month and take note of new cases. For the most part its all the usual suspects... surgeonfish, peacock groupers, amber jacks (this one sucks, ive had up to 50 or 60 pounders come right up to me but I wont take the shot because they will almost guarantee have the toxin, Ive heard they are great eating too), large ulua (giant trevally),I dont hear of too many cases coming from parrot fish, or atleast the ones we have here.

In short stay away from the usual suspects and the rest will still be a gamble.

Or you could always give a fillet to your neighbor and give it a day to see how he reacts the side effects usually take effect within 24 to 48 hours.

Good Luck

[blaiz]

Just out of curiosity... where the hell do you have to worry about cig in minnesota?

[trux]

Originally Posted by blaiz

Or you could always give a fillet to your neighbor and give it a day to see how he reacts the side effects usually take effect within 24 to 48 hours.

Actually, the symptoms suppose to apear within 1 - 10 hours. I wonder if giving a piece to a cat, dog, or another animal (perhaps some worms?) wouldn't work. Or are they more immune to ciguatera than humans?

[trux]

OK, I looked it up on the web, and found a document that is much more detailed than any other information I saw previously. Additionally it comes in a bi-lingual French-English version: http://www.spc.int/coastfish/Reports...tera_chap1.pdf

Quite a lot of good info. They also speak about the detection. Cats are more sensitive to ciguatera, and are sometimes used for the testing purpose (hope PETA is not watching this). See pages 37 to 43 for other detection methods.

Some precaution tips from the page 48:

To minimize the risk of contracting food poisoning,
the following precautions should be observed:

Avoid eating fish that have a local reputation for causing food poisoning (e.g. sharks, moray eel, red bass, bream, trevally, chinaman fish, grouper, etc.). Get advice from fishers about which fishing grounds are safe;

Be careful with large reef fish (i.e. over 10 kg), and avoid them if possible. Wherever feasible, select smaller fish since toxicity is often proportional to size;

Gut fish thoroughly. Do not eat the head, eggs, viscera or liver, which are more poisonous than the fillet;

Remember that freezing, cooking, smoking or any other method of preparation or seasoning does not eliminate the toxin;

Do not rely on flies, ants or coins to detect a poisonous fish — these techniques have misled many people. The poor cat is in fact more sensitive than humans;

After suffering from a case of fish poisoning, avoid eating any kind of fish or other seafood for at least a month and avoid alcoholic drinks;

Beware of areas that have a reputation for being ciguatera free. They can suffer an outbreak of microalgae and become potentially dangerous (the reverse is also true). Beware also of older fish;

There is no fish poisoning season. You can catch and eat a fish that contains enough toxin to give you food poisoning at any time of the year.

The cost of the test kit from Cigua.com (Cigua-Check Fish Poison Test Kit) is $10 per fish, so not really cheap.

[popolarbear]

i eat a ton of various finfish and shellfish. but also have relatives that live on the southern pacific/atlantic(in particular florida and so.cal), which i visit. i have a nasty habit of eating what i catch, and keeping(eating) too much fish overall. i am sure my mercury level is too high. ... If this toxin builds up. it may be present in small levels in a large portion of the aquatic population. online they say the symptoms are very similar to MS. and once you are exposed, forever will it be possible to relapse. and it is uncurable. interestingly i have a number of freinds who like sea food, and occasionaly complain of similar symptoms.....

[popolarbear]

Trux thats an Awsome link... way better than anything i was able to search out on the web. very very good insightfull study on the cig. issues. ...
were i go is basicaly shallow shore water access spots. so these are high candidates for this toxin. perhaps if they have a reverse list. that lists in order of lowest risk progressively higher towards fish that tend to get this problem. i noticed that they listed parrot fish, barracuda, trevalies, snapper, drums. those are like almost all the things i want!

[popolarbear]

basicaly freediving shallow tropical areas you are at risk? only safe low levels are open "blue" water hunting far off shore.? or up in northern cold water areas.

[ILDiver]

Careful shooting reef fish in Florida, especially Parrotfish. A lot of them are illegal to take.

[Coral Sniper]

We eat just about everything from the sea down here, and I would have to say parrotfish are about the safest of them all.

Thats how it is down here.

[tjkowal]

I live in Birmingham, Michigan and have just recuperated from a case of Ciguatera. Caught it from eating grouper in a local restaurant. For those of you who have never had it, I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I have never felt so sick and the neurological sysmptoms were the worst.

[chrismwpcs]

Here in Western Australa we do not have any problems with Ciguatera. It is known on the East Coast but the West is clear. Infact I have a nice Chinaman fish in the fridge now we got today weighing in at 7.1kg (15.62lb) which we will eat. It is scarey stuff knowing fish have this toxin but thankfully we are free of it.


Cheers
Chris

[agbiv]

Anyone want to test for cig toxin I have a cat here I'd gladly feed a sample to to see if it'll croak off...I mean have ill effects...blast if anyone needs some live bait I'll send him to you in a box with holes. He pooped on my head @ 4 AM one morning when wife was gone (re: banishment to outside) and now has taken to urinating in my truck bed! I pray he meets up with Mr. Great Horned owl who lives in the woods out here.

[chrismwpcs]

Heh. I would gladly take that offer up but the laws here using bait with fur is very strict so unless it is one of those hairless cats I cannot take it

Chris

[agbiv]

Shaved????