Different equalization techniques - yet another topic

[Veronika]

Hi there,
sorry for posting yet another topic on equalization technique, but I would be very thankful for your input.
Currently I'm doing CW dives up to 30m. Equalizing definitely is my limiting factor. I'm currently doing Valsalva and getting into Frenzel / Frenzel-Fattah (currently stuck at step #6 - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't).
I guess the Frenzel / Frenzel Fattah could give me another 20m (?). But then I'm stuck at 50m (equalization-wise - lets forget about the rest for a moment ). Of course I could start worrying about it then, but it gets me curious. How are you deeper guys doing the equalization at deeper depths (50m+) ?

Thanks,

Veronika

[Ulf]

I think the calculations should be like this: if you can get to 15m from the surface on a mouthfill then the presure would be 2.5atm = 2.5x the presure at which you did the mouthfill. So lets say you manage a mouthfill at 20m (3atm) it would take you to (2.5 x 3 = 7.5atm) 65m and if you stretch your lung so you can make the mouthfill deeper and practise the mouthfill you sould be able to get much deeper...(if you manage to do the mouthfill at 25m you'll get to 78m)
I think...

/Ulf

[Ben Gowland]

Using the same techniques - but the more you practice, the more your stretch your diaphragm and thus reduce your residual volume. This in turn allows you to equalise to deeper depths.

[DeepThought]

Bevan has used the mouthfill down to 90m (if I rememver correct), Eric Fattah has calculated his mouthfill to take him below 100m. I guess that with the proper use of that technique and some stretching, 50m doesn't have to be your future quasi limit.
Good luck.

[efattah]

According to my calculations, if I turned horizontal at 45m and filled my mouth, the mouthfill would get me to 192m... One mouthfill at the surface has gotten me to 30.5m with a sphera mask.

However, I have done a standard frenzel equalization at 72m, which is the deepest I have attempted it (which would have allowed me to squeeze my ears to about 90m). When doing standard frenzel, the ultimate depth you can do it depends on four main factors:
1. Initial air volume (i.e. packing etc..)
2. Chest flexibility
3. Ability to use diaphragm effectively to 'purge' the residual air and bring it towards the mouth
4. Descent speed (slower speed giving deeper equalizations)

Of course, turning horizontally or even totally upright will improve many equalizing techniques.

You can also try the reverse packing method which doesn't work as well as a mouthfill but is commonly used.

Many local divers initially have problems with frenzel around 30m, but after many, many dives, their flexibility gradually improves, and then they can frenzel to around 55m. Not many people can frenzel below 55m without lots of packing and lots of flexibility. Further, doing deep 'diaphragmatic-frenzel' equalizations requires a huge amount of effort. If you are just trying to use your tongue to frenzel, you are missing the whole exercise--a deep frenzel equalization is a whole-body struggle; piking foward, forcing your diaphragm with all your might & energy, bringing the air towards your mouth then using your tongue, while possibly simultaneously moving your jaw to loosen your eustachian tubes; touching your chin to your chest, etc...

Deep frenzel equalizations are extremely oxygen inefficient, and thus undesirable. Not to mention they induce panic and fear because the difficulty (or inability) to equalize commonly makes the descent very full of anxiety.

Once you master the mouthfill, you struggle once at 30m to get the fill, then sleep like a baby for the rest of the descent. The scary thing is that you can reach virtually any depth, which means you must be careful not to get a lung squeeze, or go deeper than your oxygen store allows you to.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[Veronika]

Thanks a lot guys !!!

[IUH]

Greetings! ALL! And especially VERONIKA! I from other planet! FROM Russia! Let's communicate! Very much to like me depth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[naiad]

Originally Posted by efattah

Many local divers initially have problems with frenzel around 30m, but after many, many dives, their flexibility gradually improves, and then they can frenzel to around 55m. Not many people can frenzel below 55m without lots of packing and lots of flexibility. Further, doing deep 'diaphragmatic-frenzel' equalizations requires a huge amount of effort. If you are just trying to use your tongue to frenzel, you are missing the whole exercise--a deep frenzel equalization is a whole-body struggle; piking foward, forcing your diaphragm with all your might & energy, bringing the air towards your mouth then using your tongue, while possibly simultaneously moving your jaw to loosen your eustachian tubes; touching your chin to your chest, etc...

I have just managed to learn the frenzel technique, and I can do it dry and in the pool. I can only do it if I use my diaphragm slightly. (I am definitely doing the frenzel and not valsalva.) It doesn't work with completely empty lungs. Am I meant to use my diaphragm at all?

Lucia

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by naiad

I have just managed to learn the frenzel technique, and I can do it dry and in the pool. I can only do it if I use my diaphragm slightly. (I am definitely doing the frenzel and not valsalva.) It doesn't work with completely empty lungs. Am I meant to use my diaphragm at all?

Lucia

I just learned Frenzel too and you definitely do not need to use your diaphragm. It is very easy and effortless so you should not struggle. It works very well even with empty lungs. You should not need to move any muscle from your neck down. I like to think of it as a "froggy" throat movement -I keep thinking of the Budweiser commercials

[jome]

We've been writing a weekly set of articles about the Frenzel at freedivingfinland.net. The idea is that we go through a part of the technique each week and introduce a set of excercises that the reader should master during the week, before moving on to the next.

For someone who read, understood and succesfully applied efattah's document, there isn't anything new. But for someone struggling with it we breaked it into small parts that should be easy to digest and also tried to compile some alternative excercises that have popped up for example in these forums.

It's currently running at week 3 and around week 6 or 7 we arrive at the whole Frenzel. Go and have a look!

[Panos Lianos]

I read Eric's document a few years ago. Make sure you read it carefully.

Learn the Frenzel, then the mouthfill. Then you can equalize everywhere

I usually fill my mouth at around 35m (maybe no need to do it so deep). Has taken me to 72m with ears and mask equalized at the bottom. I like to equalize before I turn around. I had air to spare, so I could equalize ears and mask even deeper.

If you don't equalize your mask very deep, then you can save a lot of air. I once did a variable balast dive (holding on to the bottom weight) using no mask, just a nose clip. The bottom was at 53m but still I was surprised to see how much air I had in my mouth. It was almost full.

To fill my mouth I use my throat to "pump" air in my mouth. To those who ask, I describe the whole thing like this. "Try to laugh the way Santa does, only with your mouth closed".

[immerlustig]

quote: Try to laugh the way Santa does, only with your mouth closed



thanks for that one! roland

[Polorutz]

hahaha... perfect example of diaphragmatic frenzel... santa frenzel!!

[superhornet59]

well, i know what the frenzel technique is, but i forgot the valsava technizue. theres one where you pretty much swallow, i think thats the valsava yes? but theres another one that is basicly a cough, and its generaly pretty sharp, and can damage the eardrum if done improperly. i have managed to do the "coughing" technique, i generaly do this at the bottom of the pool (the pool is 10 feet, and i like to dive to the bottom without equalizing, it seems to make my eardrums stronger, as well as my hearing worse .) so ill do it when i feel the need to instantly equalize, especials when im a bit behind.

but my favorite way is actualy to simple open my eushachian tubes, i forgot but is the eustrachian tube the "1 way valve" or is there another part that does that? well either way i have learned to do it. you know when you yawn you feel it open (thats whay it pops your ears on an airplane)? well alot of people cant volountarilly do it, but i have learned how, and as the air in my lungs and throat gets compressed, it instantly equalizes my ears. generaly i dont do it because the muscles there arent that strong, and i have really traind them so i get tired of it quickly. but its good when im trying to be streamlined and have no noseplug (usualy when i swim laps underwater, as i go down to the deep end i often use this technique.

i like it, but its tiring, so i guess il train those muscles, but generaly i like to use a noseplug because it seems to ease my urge to breath.

-Matt

[Polorutz]

Valsalva is plugging your nose and sending air with your lungs... as if you're exhaling through your nose and then u plug it...

Frenzel uses the tongue as a piston, it moves air in your mouth to equalize.

BTV is the one where you open your tubes