Equalization - upright versus inverted

Gomari · #1 December 19th, 2006

In the first 10 to 15 meters I can't seem to equalize while inverted and have to turn upright, equalize, and then invert again during descent. Once past 15 meters I equalize ok. Does anyone know what is going on and how I can resolve this issue? It's annoying and takes time. Thanks!

laminar · #2 December 19th, 2006

The only thing that comes to mind is that the change in air volume in your lungs and ears/sinuses is much greater in the 0-15m range than it is after that. From zero to 10m, the air inside you is compressed to roughly half the original volume at the surface. Using Boyle's Law (P1 V1 = P2 V2) you can see that the change in lung volume decreases less and less as you go deeper.

Perhaps you are waiting a bit too long to equalize after each successful equalization? But then when you get deeper, the pressure doesn't build up quite as fast, giving you more time to get in an equalization.

It is possible to overpressurize your ears so they won't equalize at all. That used to happen to me.

How do you equalize?

Pete

Waterysmile · #3 December 19th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by laminar

It is possible to overpressurize your ears so they won't equalize at all. That used to happen to me.

How do you equalize?

Pete

Would say a bit more about this. I have a similar problem to Gomari. I pinch my nose and blow to equalise.

Gomari · #4 December 20th, 2006

Thanks for the replies. I equalise the same way as Andrew. I pinch and blow when the pressure becomes uncomfortable. I just have to turn upright during the first 10 to 15m to equalise. No problem equalising, but it's annoying to have to right myself, equalise, and then invert again. Once below 15m I can remain inverted.

Pete, now that you mention it, I think I might be going a bit slowly in the first part of the dive. But I'm not sure how that becomes a factor while inverted versus upright. Perhaps I need to brush up on my A&P 101, LOL.
Thanks again for any help.

Gomari · #5 December 20th, 2006

Oooops...hey Andrew, I should have looked up past threads first. In the Similar Thread section, there's a ton of stuff on this issue.

DeepThought · #6 December 20th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gomari

I pinch and blow when the pressure becomes uncomfortable.

I suspect you two are actually under-equalizing. when you feel the negative pressure it is because it already pulls your eardrum, but the e-tubes have soft walls and they can get shut before you feel the pressure. I'd say, try keeping your hand on your nose and try equalizing twice per second. See if that works, if it does then I guess you found your problem and now you need to find a pace that works for you.
Add an equalization on the surface just before the duckdive. You can even add an equalization in the middle of your duckdive (might require practice). I've found that if I go as deep as I can on a duckdive on some days I can't eve get the first equalization.
Also, it sounds like you're using the Valsalva to equalize (pinch and blow). Try learning the Frenzel (pinch and tongue piston), it is usually more efficient.

naiad · #7 December 20th, 2006

I can't do the Valsalva upside down at any depth. It doesn't even work very well upright. I find the Frenzel much more effective.

Lucia

Waterysmile · #8 December 20th, 2006

Good point, Gomari - I'll have a read of them too.

DeepThought - I think I will have to be patient! I have only been diving 3 times, the latter two to 16 and 15 metres. Now that it is winter here I don't fancy going in very cold water so will have to wait for the Spring. But I think that I need lots of getting in the water and practice. When I did my AIDA** to 16 metres I did many dives over 2 days and found on my final dive that my ears felt fine at 16 metres and could have gone several metres deeper. But as I am a beginner I forget between sessions what I did.

Gomari · #9 December 22nd, 2006

OK, thanks Lucia and Deep Thought. I'll try the Frenzel. Lucia, you really sold me since we have similar issues. If the Frenzel works for you, then I'm hoping it will work for me too. Thanks again.
Jim

Matte · #10 January 2nd, 2007

Hi Gomari,
I am surely not an expert and probably this is arriving one week too late, but just in case it could help, I think Eric Fattah wrote a nice document about the frenzel technique (and his own improved version: useful anyway when you dive below 35.. or you do FRV or FRC) that you could download from Liquivision F1 and Fluid Goggles Home I red it and found very useful.. after a while you feel you can master rather well many parts of your throat that you did not even know you had.. :-) well you probably already know how to, but just in case.. if you don't, be careful with packing... I nearly blowed me up.. =:-0

Matte · #11 January 10th, 2007

Hi everybody,

a little update. Following the suggestions efattah but especially of the finnish guys The Frenzel Technique :: FDTF :: Freediving Team of Finland
I tried few free pool immersions with passive exale head up and head down. As many say you don't need to go to -30m to test how good your equalization technique is: with passive exale you have the same problems ready at -4 (-5) m. Thinking I could master frenzel rather well, I handled quite easily head up, but when I tried head down.. no way.. perfectly perpendicular, with my head touching the bottom, I din't even know what I was doing.. pushing, pulling, suching, frenzel, valsalva.. just pain in the ears.. damn it, up again Matteo!
Theory was all right, but practice.. another thing. BUT today I tried again and being just a little more focused on what was happening inside my troath I finally managed.. A "perfect" eustachian tubes opening and subsequent frenzel with toungue push: I am very happy. Now it is just a matter of exercise till I will pefectly master all the movements, and will be ready to open seas.. (well more or less :-) ).

Ciao, Matteo.

Spea feesha · #12 January 16th, 2007

WOW!, great download. I am a total newb to freediving but I have been doing alot of reading here, I just downloaded and applied the article and learned it in less than 10 minutes.....thaks for that.

Matte · #13 January 17th, 2007

Dear Spea Feesha,

now that you took a look to "things to do" do not forget to get a even a closer look to "things NOT to do". I am talking about safety and following a smooth improvement curve. I have been warned myself too, and despite you probaly know already a lot (like I also thought of myself), it is better to know more than less considering that a mistake can cost too much sometimes. There are plenty of good threads here: among my favorites you find http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/...nightmare.html
and http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/...rtrapping.html
Ciaociao,

Matteo.

Spea feesha · #14 January 18th, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matte

Dear Spea Feesha,

now that you took a look to "things to do" do not forget to get a even a closer look to "things NOT to do". I am talking about safety and following a smooth improvement curve. I have been warned myself too, and despite you probaly know already a lot (like I also thought of myself), it is better to know more than less considering that a mistake can cost too much sometimes. There are plenty of good threads here: among my favorites you find http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/...nightmare.html
and http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/...rtrapping.html
Ciaociao,

Matteo.

thanks for the links Matte, I have alot more reading to do. I like the frenzel as it's really easy to apply and I can adjust the amount pressure needed but I am still afraid to try it in the water. I've been practicing it and 90% of the time I have felt dizziness.

Matte · #15 January 19th, 2007

hi Spea,

I have actually no idea why this happens to you. Well I have an idea, but I am not sure.. I just can guess, so don't believe it 100%.
If I equalize not exposed to pressure, then my eardrums are pushed to the outside (overequalizing) and this, especially if prolonged in time, have an impact on your equlibrium center (or in english balance center maybe) located just behind the eardrum (as you certanly know) , and this could imply dizzines.
If you equalize in water (or better underwater) your eardrum is not (shouldn't be) stretched at all and you should not have any problem of dizziness.
BUT as everyone would reccomend, find a buddy or better an experienced group to dive with and try it, no worries. If you are alone then is another story.
Personally I was born in Genova and I used to dive as a kid in the same waters where pionieers such Dulio Marcante, Egidio Cressi, Dario Gonzatti, Ludovico Mares, Luigi Ferraro, made the history of diving. Not that i "absorbed" their incredible experience while in the water, but exposed to the same environment I got what people call the acquaticity (meaning the confidence with water which is not related to swimming for example) as nearly every kid of my riviera gets.
I recently (unfortunately) realized that when you are not a kid anymore, then it is not the same and your preservation insticnt is less active allowing to expose yourself to riscs that could be to hard to handle. But thank God when you are older you have more patience and spending some time in reading you will KNOW what not to do and not just FEEL it as you did when you were a kid. Well this is again another theory of mine, so.. :-/

Contact some diver from your place, meet them, and just try it.. it is not a big deal after all.. if diving was not fun, nobody would do it at all, don't you think?

ciao,

Matteo.

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