How deep can you go on 2 EQ's?

[azapa]

Imagining that you pre-equalize on the surface, how deep can you go with two more EQ's without having any ear pain? I am referring to the point that the 3rd EQ would be done: a slight ear sensation maybe, but 0 pain. I am aware that constant Equing, and not waiting to feel the sensation is better.

Why do I ask? I am sure that as with anything, EQ gets easier with practice, and my EQ requirements are less after a year of training.

Is it:
a. because my ear drums are more flexible (in/out) now and there is less pain?
b. because I am sub-consciously EQing without pinching in between?
c. because I am more relaxed in general diving now and "ear fear" or worry induced EQ problems have gone?

To put this in context, 1 year ago I could not even get to 12M due to pain and not being able to EQ.
THANKS

[sanso]

hmm... why is it exactly two EQ's You're asking for?

You might as well ask how deep one can go without equalizing (and then do the math from there on, if required). Calculated in units of pressure (bar), the answer will essentially give You the ratio of how much peoples' airspaces are compressible (without pain, etc..). E.g. for an answer of 5m, that would give You 1:1,5 (== 2/3)

That will leave less room for variation, because the answer to Your question as is depends on where people equalize the first and second time, which may vary.

Ah, and I think the major parts are a. and c. It's possible that b. is a factor, but You'll have to find that one out yourself.

[azapa]

Hi Sanso, thanks for the answer. The question is a little random I guess. It's to obtain a benchmark. I dive to 12 M comfortably on 2 EQ's (in addition to the surface pre-EQ). I wanted to compare. Watching one of my buddies I see he EQ's 2 to get to 16M. He is very experienced. So, let me ask you: to 12M how many EQ's do you need (not how many do you do?)
When line diving I do many EQ's, even too many (force, work etc resulting in more O2 use). But spearing I do very few, because my hands are occupied (torch, gun, line) and some fish bolt on hearing a hearty Freznel!

[BennyB]

I don't think there's a rule of thumb. I have to equalise at about 3m and roughly every 3m up until 15m or so - so specifically answering your question, about 4 or 5.

Once I observed another guy I train with swim down to about 6 or 7m and didn't equalise once. He's roughly the same level as me in constant weight.

Cheers,
Ben

[sanso]

Originally Posted by BennyB

I don't think there's a rule of thumb. ...

There surely isn't, come to think of it. Simply because peoples' physiology differs so much. Whatever works for You will very likely not work the same way for anyone else.
So even eliminating two Eqs from Your benchmark, the greatest variable (people) will still be there and any answer to Your question will probably not tell You anything about Your situation, I fear.
But the good thing is that it's not that important what others do. If You've improved, that's good. And if You're happy with how You're doing, that's all it takes!

[AlexF]

I have only counted EQ's once and I believe I did something like 12 to get to 25m. I do a handsfree EQ and do it very often. It will only work for me if there isn't enough pressure built in. After 35m I have to do Frenzel as handsfree won't work all the time.

I know I have to EQ at 3m the first time.

[spaghetti]

As Benny pointed out there's no rule of thumb.
Sore sinuses, inflamed middle ear, the eardrum and ear cavities made sticky or less elastic by mucus (as a consequence of inflammation), any post-traumatic deformity of nasal cavities: all of these factors will make equalization less effective and more painful, so taht you feel the need of equalizing more times, or simply abstain from going deeper.
How do I know?
This is what my doctor says about my medical case. I have them all: Sore sinuses, inflamed middle ear, the eardrum and ear cavities made sticky or less elastic by mucus (as a consequence of inflammation), post-traumatic deformity of nasal cavities.
I'm diving 25 meters with 3 Valsalva and a couple of Marcante-Odaglia eq's. More pain in cold water!

[spaghetti]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

As Benny pointed out there's no rule of thumb.
Sore sinuses, inflamed middle ear, the eardrum and ear cavities made sticky or less elastic by mucus (as a consequence of inflammation), any post-traumatic deformity of nasal cavities: all of these factors will make equalization less effective and more painful, so taht you feel the need of equalizing more times, or simply abstain from going deeper.
How do I know?
This is what my doctor says about my medical case. I have them all: Sore sinuses, inflamed middle ear, the eardrum and ear cavities made sticky or less elastic by mucus (as a consequence of inflammation), post-traumatic deformity of nasal cavities.
I'm diving 25 meters with 3 Valsalva and a couple of Marcante-Odaglia eq's. More pain in cold water!

edit:
Ah one more thing: after the eq's in descent, I keep making Marcante-Odaglia during the bottom time for all the times I feel necessary.

[azapa]

thanks for the answers, and Spago: hope you get better soon. I am sure that the less one thinks of EQ the better it gets.

Do you believe that dry (sitting in work, in car) EQ's have any benefit, other than making people think you are mad and backing off?

Just last night, dry Equing in the car on the way home, I could frenzel and maintain tubes open. It is easy to tell as things start sounding funny ( a slight hissing sound like a microphone with the gain turned up??) I was trying to get to the point of maintaining the open tubes on reducing the frenzel pressure for a few seconds. Too much time on my hands?

Cheers

[naiad]

Originally Posted by azapa

Do you believe that dry (sitting in work, in car) EQ's have any benefit, other than making people think you are mad and backing off?

I think so, I have improved a lot by doing dry EQs and then trying the same in the pool.

[apneaboy]

Normally when in practice, no cold or sniffles, no stress about 8 metres first EQ. 16-18m 2nd EQ.

Perfect day 11 metres first EQ 23 - 25 metres 2nd EQ. Mouthfill and sink.

No pain no pressure just a nice slow gentle 'pop'.

I used to have ear problems but time and technique and relaxation helps a lot. Wouldn't recommend waiting until those depths though unless there is NO pressure i might be doing a no hands technique unconciously and just topping up the equalisation with a Frenzel.

I like my ears :-)

Funnily on SCUBA i equalise more?? go figure??

[SEDATE]

last summer i asked a question smiliar to this! how a person can go deep fillin' all sinuses doing no any equalizing( after filling it is already imposible!)
Diving without glasses, no suit, no fin, no any tools(only swimming suit)
i can easily say that; when you dive you use your 2 hands and 2 legs as a frog(frog style) you fell yourself like a frog or a part of a sea( at least i felt like that!)...
in first day: i felt some pain from salt due to salty water filling the sinuses...made some tears from eyes..
following days: i felt more comfortable and more relaxed. My body made adaptation to this style dive quickly..
but started fearing a little bit at deep question was:
here is the question there is no any answer sedate? : water pushing outside is equel inside or not?
at least... i remember i asked to this question to myself!
when return surface the water pushed me to the surface increadible speed.. it was not the same -8m with -14m
i open my hands and my palms looking up to reduce the speed..it worked!.
what more can i do to reduce my speed? what happens to my ears if i go more deep? more questions passing in my brain...no answer comes..
started from -4m meters step by step i manage to dive -17m by this style .. i do not know what name is..
is it possible to dive -100m without any eq?
cheers!

[sanso]

Sedate,

I'm not sure I understood Your questions correctly. You flushed Your sinuses with water to avoid having to equalize. Is that right?
Yes, filling Your airspaces with water will eliminate the need to equalize them (because then they're no airspaces anymore )
The next barrier You'll reach will be Your lungs which You don't want to flush, I assume. They will be compressed to their residual volume at a certain depth. For most freedivers that would be somewhere below -30m.

At least some of the very deep divers used to do that, because people hadn't thought of things like the Frenzel technique and the mouthfill at the time.

EDIT: Ah, and why do You want to reduce Your speed of ascent? If You have trouble with buoyancy, You should double check how much weight You need. Carrying less air with You will certainly not increase Your buoyancy, anyway.

HTH

P.S.: welcome back!

[SEDATE]

sanso ...thnx
you gave me very useful information.