Buy Top Equipment @ The Deeper Blue Shop!

[efattah]

I was outraged at the comment by Roger Yazbeck and immediately forwarded it to our local Vancouver list, urging people to buy as much Picasso stuff from Deeperblue before the black-list begins.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

[A Brownsword]

There is something seriously wrong when it even possible to buy stuff from abroad and ship it directly to my door in two days, for much less than half what it would cost to buy locally... if I could even find it locally!! As far as I'm concerned the North American distributors are clearly only interested in ripping off the North American consumer. Black listing an online store is really just padding their margins and depriving us of decent equipment priced at what it is worth, not what they can get away with. The real answer is to make North American shops competitive pricewise, not to try and put the online stores out of business.

Frankly I'd rather be able to see & touch most products and buy them locally (to support the local dive industry) than order them online, but I will if the pricing and availability is so dramatically different.

[thin_air]

am i the only one confused by picasso's move

i dont really get the point, they are still selling their products, they are obviously making some profit in one way or another, why would they try to do this, do they have to many costumers? do they only want their customers to pay a million dollars per suit?

maybe i dont have any knowledge in marketing and sales but i know that what i buy is dictated buy price, and if it wasnt for deeperblue shop, i would never be able to buy anything picasso

and Brownsword has a good point about the competitive aspect of the local stores

oh well, if they dont want me to buy their products, i wont, and if deeperblue store doesnt sell them, then i have nowhere else to get them so its picassos lost



cliff and stephan, thanks for everything you have done for the db freedive community

[Octo]

Free market is a free market. I buy from those who give the best price to service ratio. Bottom line. I will pay more if there is added value by the vendor. There may be some franchise or trade violation happening with regards to this issue. I need more info to be able to make an intelligent comment on the subject.

Warmly,

[scott]

thin_air,

To explain your confusion (to the best of my knowledge), Roger does not represent Picasso as a global company but rather just as the N. American sales rep. While Picasso still has the sales and profits from the deeperblue store (diveinn.com), Roger does not. As such, he is not pleased to lose business.

As has been noted many times in these forums, Roger provides tremendous customer support. In my case, about two years ago, he was able to track down the only BT fins in my size in N. America (a dive shop in Hawaii). Long story but he went the extra mile and I got my fins in time for a trip and for a good price ($99).

Now, in my opinion, Roger is wrong to "blacklist" deeperblue. He, of course, deserves to be compensated for his services and should set those services to such a level that people gladly pay his premium. If you know exactly what type of third mask you need, buy it from deeperblue. If you are buying a wetsuit and don't know what size you need, what type for your diving climate, and have many questions, Roger will walk you through all of them and insure you end up with what you are looking for. For a well-deserved price. But let the buyer decide the option they want (not that deeperblue doesn't offer good support, but they may not return your call at home at 9:00 PM to follow-up like Roger does).

In short, Roger should not stifle competition but welcome it and find his differential advantage to make his prices worth the extra. As for the buyer, they should have the chioce. And since my next mask with be my sixth, I'm buying it from deeperblue.

Scott

[crazyfrenchmen]

Originally posted by Cliff Etzel
I was made aware of this in a recent post to the Freedivelist by Roger Yazbeck, President of Picasso America who is spearheading this movement.

Can someone direct me to that post? The law of the market are simple, if you can sell the stuff, they'll send it to you. There have to be a reason behind that. That's the big problem with post, people tend to interpret everything like the bible. Picasso and DB have a long history of partnership (buying banners) hi think, so they would be VERY stoopid to piss off the community.

[Stephan Whelan]

Hi everyone!

I spent a good deal of time since Friday on the phone to various people distributing kit in the US and wanted to speak directly to people such as Roger Yazbeck of Picasso America.

Firstly, here is a portion of the message Cliff is refering to:

For the past days we've been holding meetings and conferences in order to deal with the situation and very shortly, we'll be coming up with a formula that will eliminate the problem in North America as well as internationally.

I was made aware of this from one of the major US distributors on Friday and it seems that it is very real. Several of the US Freediving (and Scuba) Distributors have been holding urgent meetings to try and put pressure on their European Manufacturers to stop supplying DiveInn. It seems though, that whilst we have acted as a catalyst to this process, many of this Distributors already were wondering what to do about DiveInn.

I am in talks with DiveInn to make sure supplies are protected, but this is now at a level much higher than we at DB can control. The US market is very large and the Manufacturers are smart so know that if they lose sales in the US, they will gain them locally via the DB Shop or DiveInn directly. However, because the US market is so large (we're not just talking Freediving kit now) the distributors may be able to exert a large enough amount of pressure to see brands being removed from DiveInn's stock. This is a direct result of US Distributors trying to protect their business as well as not truly understanding how globalisation works.

This whole argument went round the book industry when Amazon.com launched. Bookstores worried that they would be driven out of business by Amazon.com but in reality is turned out there is enough space in marketplace for everyone - in fact Amazon.com helped drive book sales up.

The next month or so will be critical as it will show whether the US Distributors have been able to exert enough pressure on the European Manufacturers to cause us, and more specifically the Freediving Consumers, problems. We will keep you abreast of what goes on.

[crazyfrenchmen]

Hi,
i just subscribe to freedivelist. I didn't know it exist Could someone be so kind as too post the mail here or send it to me at here
thanks!

Admin Note: i've removed your email address and added a link to the forum email system so that we can keep your privacy. Never post your email on the public board!

[Jay Styron]

Unfortunatly just another case of capitolism at work. Just like when the dive shops started whinning because people started ordering from mailorder suppliers. At work we carry dealerships for some of the scuba vendors so I know the mark up on their items. It's sickening to go in a store and see what they're charging. A lot of times over 100% mark up If I can get the same product at a better price you bet I'm going to do it! Keep up the good work and don't let them get down. Maybe then they'll realise that their products aren't made of gold .
Jay

[scott]

I'm appalled at the U.S. Distributors trying to stifle competition. I always thought Americans took pride in being the leaders in free enterprise and capitalism.

Scott

[crazyfrenchmen]

Hi,
i just went to the shop to get some booties/socks. I realise that there's not description for most of the stuff. I will be great everyone could go there and write about stuff they own in user comment.

[Frost]

I have a suggestion regarding Roger’s position. SWITCH BRANDS. Nothing changes the mind of a business faster than losing customers to direct competitors. After being disgusted by the prices he’s trying to charge for gear, I got in touch with the guys on the East Coast that sell Omer products (piratescuba.com) as well as the NA distributor (Technosport, Inc.). I use all Omer gear and have to say that the quality of the equipment and the level the attention I have received are outstanding. I have never owned a single piece of Picasso gear so this judgement may be a bit biased. However, I can say with a fair degree of certainty that I will never own anything but Omer. I have a 5mm SuperStretch and was in the Chesapeake this past weekend hunting and in Hatteras, NC last weekend (BTW w/ the NA Omer distributor and an owner of a shop that sells Omer gear; see if Roger goes out with his customers to make sure the gear is solid). After using the suit the past two weekends and hunting with guys that represent or sell for the Company, I have no idea why any one would deal w/ Picasso. I pay 20 – 30% less for Omer products then I would have for Picasso. Are you kidding me??!! I still can’t understand why spearos aren’t making the switch in mass. Of course, this is my opinion but I don’t think you can go wrong with Omer or its people.

[andrsn]

frost,

i was just out in 46F water in no.cal this past weekend w/ my 5mil superstretch. the only parts that got cold were those not covered by the suit.

andrsn

[crazyfrenchmen]

Please, dont start flaming picasso, they do make good product. As for the 46 degree water, i use a two piece 3.5mm beuchat here in winter and summer and i never get cold under one hour. Maybe my natural insulation has something ti di with that.

[Erik]

I have dealt with Picasso, OMER, and Dive Inn, before the DBlue connection. Roger was helpful, but my 5mm suit cost me almost 1000$ Can. by the time I got it up here. I have dealt with mark at Technosport as well (OMER) and he was also very helpful, AND gave me smokin' deals on the gear I have bought from him. Dive Inn was quick and cheap, plus for some reason I have not been charged so much at the border. OMER gear is equal to, and superior to some Picasso gear in my opinion.
I like to support local business, but if that local business is holding me over a barrel because they hold a monopoly on a product, then I go elsewhere.
In Canada we've lost a lot due to the free trade agreement, and this is a typical reaction when those with all the power start feeling threatened....they try to stop any attempt by the smaller country or the average guy in the street from being competitive.
Come on Roger, when you're selling masks for 99.99$ US, what do you expect? If I can get the same mask(for all intents) for 17$, where should I go?
Good luck Stephan and Cliff, I will continue to support your magazine and store.
Cheers,
Erik Y.