Insults and abuse

[Erik]

Dear friends, I have noticed that lately there has been more need for me to step in and address statements in which DB Members or their opinions are attacked.

Being an optimist, I believe that mostly people's intentions are not based on malice. However, please use this amazing tool called the internet by re-reading your post before you post it... preview it and try to look from another's point of view with empathy. Add emoticons to help counteract the lack of non-verbal part of the conversation if desired, which can completely change the tone of the message.
Deeper Blue has managed to remain a safe and friendly place to share ideas, stories and debate despite our international/cultural/linguistic barriers, and I assure you it will stay that way.

Be nice!
Erik

[Oldsarge]

The same goes for the Hunting section, as well. Opinions are welcome so long as they are expressed in considerate and civilized language. In other words, I've got an infraction button and I ain't afraid of using it.

[naiad]

I agree. Certain topics are more controversial than others, and some are not appropriate for discussion on DB, but I think in most cases the member is to blame, and not the topic. After all, people should be able to have a civilised debate about politics or another controversial topic without calling each other 'bunny-huggers' and 'fascists', as I have seen happening here.

I don't think it is fair that certain controversial but appropriate topics, such as ethical hunting, global warming, conservation and the Audrey Mestre tragedy have become impossible to discuss because there are always one or two members who make offensive or inappropriate remarks. ANY topic can be turned into an argument by such people - they just have to say 'I am a militant animal rights activist and I think anyone who is not a vegan is a murderer' or 'I am a spearo and I kill anything that moves, endangered fish, dolphins and turtles' and everyone takes the bait and starts arguing.

Spammers are banned as soon as possible and their posts deleted - surely the same can be done with inconsiderate members?

Lucia

[cebaztian]

As Erik points out written language lacks many levels of communication. And I believe that not only the "sender" but also the reciever has an obligation not to read TOO much into written statements.

But me personally I do not get much out of a conversation that is only nice and cosy and where anything controversial is removed and we all develop into a homogene gray ball.

Myself I dont go beserk if someone states their opinion and claims I am a murderer just because I eat meat. I dont even find it being an "opinion" its a fact. Even though the word "murderer" is quite harsh (I take life, by eating life).

I realy feel a need for threads like:

" I freedive alone to 70% of my ability" or "today I did scuba on air to 60 meters" or "if X on purpose did not fill the bottle before the NLT dive it could be considered murder", or "breaking eardrums is irresponisible diving" or " I enjoy eating doplhinmeat"...

If we cant speculate, be critical or if anyone differing from an average norm is an outcast - why talk at all.

Sebastian
Sweden

[trux]

Personally I find the DB forum very cultivate (well, it is true I do not read much of the hunting section, so it may be different there). I just remember one guy having a post removed for profanity in a hunting ethic thread a few weeks ago, and he indeed deserved it.

However, in this case - and I believe it was triggered by the post of diversharm in the suicide thread - in fact I did not find it offensive or profane at all. Not even impolite, just little bit too categoric and baseless. That's why I replied to it quietly reasoning with my arguments, and so did some others too. Frankly told, Erik, I was more surprised by your overreaction and a rather aggressive answer, than by the post itself. I do not think that the comment deserved so harsh rebuke. It did not offend anyone, just expresses his opinion in a categoric but still polite and decent form. I would not like to see this forum turning into a heavily censored police district with no possibility of arguing with each other.

I understood very well you locking the thread about Pipin - the legal reasons are well comprehensible, but in this case I believe you let you blow away by your administrative role too far. Yes, I am happy for the moderating entries in the DB threads, but firmly believe that the moderator should stay what it calls - moderate: strict but decent, polite and dampening emotions instead of driving them up. Simply, making the best example of cultivate communication.

That told, I value very highly your work here on the forum, and never had any reservations before this case - and I would not even tell anything if you did not start this thread after rebuking that guy.

Thanks for your comprehension and sorry for reharshing it publicly here

[naiad]

Originally Posted by cebaztian

I realy feel a need for threads like:

" I freedive alone to 70% of my ability" or "today I did scuba on air to 60 meters" or "if X on purpose did not fill the bottle before the NLT dive it could be considered murder", or "breaking eardrums is irresponisible diving" or " I enjoy eating doplhinmeat"...

I agree. Those are all valid topics for discussion, and we should be able to discuss them. That does not mean that we have to agree about them. We can gain a lot from discussing them - some of the threads on diving alone have many useful safety tips for those who are determined to dive alone, and many cautionary tales for those who may be considering it.

However, it says in the forum rules;

Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack.

This includes calling others murderers, bunny-huggers, fascists, idiots etc. I think anyone who offends in this way more than once should be banned, even if he/she is a regular poster or a member of staff.

[Fondueset]

I'm just here for da chicks

[Erik]

Great input thank you folks. I try to be very careful but admit to human flaws, and appreciate any feedback. Also know that sometimes there are concerns voiced in private, behind the threads and those need to be taken into consideration.
I certainly advocate polite debate otherwise as said, why read at all?
Always feel free to PM me or voice any concerns to me or another at DB.
Cheers,
Erik

[Erik]

Originally Posted by naiad

Spammers are banned as soon as possible and their posts deleted - surely the same can be done with inconsiderate members?

Lucia

We do that when we have to, but it's a drastic move. As stated in this thread, some are less easily offended and enjoy a good bout in the ring. It's a fine line sometimes and there has to be serious cause for banning someone due to their actions. Spammers are banned outright, but actual members' cases are reviewed among the team before almost any infraction or warning is given, and certainly before a banning.

Erik

[Fondueset]

I absolutely agree with your approach. It comes down to reading the intention of the poster. Lately we've had a few that were clearly closed loops. From what I can see it has been handled firmly and skillfully.

[SanderP]

I have to be blind, as I've never really seen any seriously impolite or offensive posts against other members during this one year here in DB. Of course there are some stronger arguments every now and then but I didn't think we needed a sticky to remember us that. Guess it's still good that it exists now, just in case.

Originally Posted by trux

I would not like to see this forum turning into a heavily censored police district with no possibility of arguing with each other.

Have to agree with trux on this one. I hope it doesn't get too strict.

And I think threads going off-topic is a far more serious problem than this. That happens especially often in The Beach Bar, but I suppose it's a section where random discussion is kind of allowed.

[GreekDiver]

deeperblue is too sensitive. Admins ban, edit, and remove things that sometimes shouldnt be. I think its crossing the line when personal insults and name calling begin. Everything else is usually ok.

my 2 cents

[fogish]

Usually an Admin/Moderator is as sensitive as a large minority of the forum (not by choice but by responses from others). Having been a moderator before it is difficult to keep a balance between people's freedom to express their opinions and allowing those expressions to negatively effect others. I think this is something Erik has already tried to explain though.

It makes it much harder on a multi cultural forum with people speaking English as a second language as well. (*edit* I should also state that there are a lot of misunderstandings between people who only speak english, so it is not limited to secondary speakers of it.) A lot can be misunderstood, but thankfully pretty much everyone all of the time is here because of the love of or curiosity in Freediving. We continually keep remembering that that is something we all share in common, and all else is not such a big deal.

Like everyone else, I believe name calling and insults are not needed to have a discourse about any subject, so I am glad that is not allowed.

[spaghetti]

Roger that, Erik. I appreciate your warning even if this is the fairest forum I've ever been at.
But now that' we're at it, my honest opinion is that personal attacks and insults should be avoided also in personal messages too. Of course a PM is a personal "privacy" thing, and moderators MUSTN'T interfere at all with it. But speaking for one, me I don't like to receive PM's in which forum members are...put under a "bad shadow".
It doesn't make any sense to be nice and polite in the open air of the forum, and then make butchery of people in the shadow of covered messages.
And these were my 2 eurocents.

[jimdoe2you]

Spaghetti,

What do you know!!!! You are don't even speak the world's main language, "American" Since you are from Italy (which speaks spanish), you can't think in the american language! Remember, our 52 states (I included Puerto Rico and Nova Scotia) were founded on "Freedom of Speech" by the great american Chritopher Columbus and if I want to claim that I am superior intellectually, physically, emotionally, and intellectually to all of the canadians, mexicans, and japanese people that share a border with the USA, then I have the right!!!

Sincerely,
Colin Willer
"Amphibious"

(I am typing this from Jim's PC)

I M


(Amphibious just got back from a 2300km road trip in the rocky mountains, as is very confused)