[Article] Martin Stepanek: It's Not About Me

[turtle]

Originally Posted by glennv

I am sure rope measurements are as good as looking between your fingers to estimate the distance between 2 objects.

not necessarily. distance is a better measure of distance than pressure. it's just a question of calibration.

fred

[glennv]

Originally Posted by turtle

not necessarily. distance is a better measure of distance than pressure. it's just a question of calibration.

fred

Indeed distance is much better then the indirect pressure measurements, but unfortunately line stretch of line over 100m is a mayor problem Pre stretching is a standard although unprecise method to guestimate the final line length. A little current, or prolonged effect of the weight of the cable itself and big bottom weight on the cable can easily extend the length a lot.
Also with lines of 100+ meter keeping it perfectly vertical is also a problem.
With all these problems maintaining a one meter error margin seems to me rather difficult.

[Billextreme]

Up to 120-130m line is no problem if you do it the right way, with the right rope. (+/- 1 feet is what we have to deal with there normally) For Herbert 214m dive the diff was 80cm plus on the computer.

/B

[Billextreme]

Let's start a new tread...

/B

[glennv]

Originally Posted by Billextreme

Up to 120-130m line is no problem if you do it the right way, with the right rope. (+/- 1 feet is what we have to deal with there normally) For Herbert 214m dive the diff was 80cm plus on the computer.

/B

So in case the computer was 1 meter off (not saying that it was), the line would be in the end 1,8 meters off ?? Not the way to check i would say with another device about which you know is influenced by the things I already mentioned, but unfortunately the only way available.

Anyway, I feel this is not leading anywhere anyway and most people seem to be happy with the current error margins. So lets stop this discussion or open a separate thread if anyone feels this is important. I have already polluted this thread too much with off topic stuff.

[turtle]

something like vectran would do the trick. you get it in chandleries but it is a bit expensive.

it has a stretch of something like 1% under 1/3 of it's breaking load - which for 24mm line is 14,000kg - so you'd have to load it over 4.5 tonnes of bottom weight for it to stretch appreciably. Which is one hell of a FIM line. As far as i know vectran doesn't 'creep' like most polymer materials under continuous load either. I'd guess someone on the dbforum could help out here?

As for drift... well, it can't be rocket science to use a sonar/emitter on the bottom plate and just see what angle the bottom plate is from the platform directly above, then it's gcse maths.

dunno, seems cooler than banning people from diving a metre deeper. besides, someday we'll all be old and wrinkly and we'll weep at the though of how much time we wasted with measuring tapes.

f

[turtle]

glenn, you've said that a 1 metre error margin is not acceptable, you've also said that measuring a line is guesswork. So you for one are not happy with the current margins of error.

I'm not that fussed about the first part, but i disagree with the second bit of the statement & if this whole line of discussion is going to lead to a possible re-evaluation of records, then maybe it should be thought through properly, no?

Sorry, not meaning to be rude, but just seems like you're starting up a line of thought, then shutting it down.

Bill, yep probably new thread time.

f

[glennv]

Originally Posted by turtle

Sorry, not meaning to be rude, but just seems like you're starting up a line of thought, then shutting it down.

Thanks for correcting me Turtle , I opened a new thread here so we can continue this off topic discussion further.

[GreG.]

REGULATIONS FOR INTERNATIONAL FREEDIVING COMPETITIONS says :
v11.2-2.2.1
A safety lanyard is mandatory for all depth events.
v11.2-3.13
The athlete must bring a tag up to the surface and deliver it to a member of the jury. This tag is situated on the final base plate at the announced depth of the athlete;
REGULATION FOR THE RECOGNITION OF RECORDS says :
v5.3a-6.3.2 Signal arrangement:
6.3.2.1 For constant weight, constant weight without fins and free immersion, one or several signals will be
placed at the anticipated depth of the record attempt bearing a number corresponding to the depth in
meters and signed by the International AIDA Judges on the day of the attempt.
The following submissions will be used to witness the performance:
· the freediver bringing up a marker ("depth tag") previously signed by the 2 International Judges.
AND
· a video recording on a new videocassette of the capture of the marker by a camera secured at the
anticipated depth, signed by the 2 International Judges prior to its immersion.
However, in free immersion and in constant weight without fins, it is permissible to touch only the end
plate by hand without taking the marker.

Well... To my opinion :
- First of all, every decision must be taking using the rules, so we have to know why (point X.x.x of rules) this decision has been taken.
- When it is not in the rules... 11.2-8.4 In the case of real doubt, benefit must be given to the athlete. If this is the case, the jury decides which performance to take into consideration. AND 11.2-10.6 Only the jury is allowed to make decisions not appearing in the present regulation. BUT Lanyard and Tag are in the rules....
- Point v5.3a-6.3.2 has "signal arrangement" title, it means that this part of the rules is known to be different than in the competition rules and it done for it.

As AIDA said we have "to protect three people during each performance; the current record holder, the athlete attempting to break the record, and the future record holder that will have to break a more difficult record."
To my opinion the benefit should be given to Martin too. Could someone give to me the reference to the rules where is it WRITTEN that lanyar is not mandatory if there are scuba divers...

Bill, i have a question :
Concerning competition... Protests could be done using a certain protocol, what is it about record attemps, wich document shall we use ?

[Billextreme]

READ the Appendix !!! (please)

"for the specific discipline" is section 3 in v11.2 - constant(x2) and nothing else.
(lanyard is section 2, right?!)

Protest in world record attempts will only be recived by the AIDA Executive Board, like in this case.

/B

[BWD]

So let me get this straight. Guy goes and beats a world record overseen by the organization that oversees the record and then later they tell him they fugged up and so his record is no longer valid?

AHAHAH, now that is a Joke!

[VaclavH]

Just a little thought.
The athlete has to come back up.
So + 1 meter really means + 2 meters added to the performance
+5 meters means actually + 10 meters added
How many of you can add 10 meters to the current world or national record? :-)
As I said, just a little thought.

[VaclavH]

Originally Posted by BWD

So let me get this straight. Guy goes and beats a world record overseen by the organization that oversees the record and then later they tell him they fugged up and so his record is no longer valid?

AHAHAH, now that is a Joke!

And they validated at least 2 or 3 times before taking it away. Really a big and I'm sure a costly joke.

[alix.leclerc]

Originally Posted by VaclavH

Just a little thought.
The athlete has to come back up.
So + 1 meter really means + 2 meters added to the performance
+5 meters means actually + 10 meters added
How many of you can add 10 meters to the current world or national record? :-)
As I said, just a little thought.

That's a very good point. I agree with what has been said before that the distances that are being used at the moment are fine, and there's not real nead to increase (or decrease) them.

Anyway we've all seemed to agree on where the problems in this attempt actually stemmed from.

[apneaboy]

I think lanyard or not, tag or not these are magnificent performances.

Good luck Martin in breaking this in the near future I just hope too many sponsors are not scared off as that would damage the excellent efforts of the athletes.