Sea Angling for Spearos

[Mr. X]

Spoken with the confidence of experience. I will give it try. I think I have the bits & pieces required. Not sure about availability of squid/calamari round here (had to buy a card today - easy, local store only had one option!) - I will look out for it though. We often buy mackeral, the book I borrowed shows a mackeral head used as a bait for bass - any good? Was wondering about the artificial baits Miles mentioned, or the vacuum packed fresh sandeels (I see sandeels, or something similar, a lot in the waters I fish)... as I tend to only get a few hours fishing in every couple of weeks.

On holiday we'll prob. buy some local fish, most likely mackeral to eat. The leftovers can be used as bait (or to bait my cray/lobster/bait trap). Might be worth getting a big bag of squid/calamari in for the hol.

[Magpie]

If you can find it Power Pro is the best braid I've used by far, its american but shows up on ebay for reasonable prices occasionally.

Foxy right, unless you're an expert bait will definately produce more than spinning will. You'd do a lot worse than getting down to the beach at low tide and digging some rag or lugworm, its free!

[foxfish]

So Magpie you going to tell us how the casting comp went?

[Tim1]

PMFJI chaps, this a thread which passed me by...

May I introduce myself? I've been lure fishing for saltwater fish in the UK for 30 odd years. For bass and shore pollack I normally used either an 11' or 9' fast taper 1-3 oz bass rod and abu 6500 / 5500 reel. 11lb sylcast line was great. It was a 'hard' mono and cheap too so it both resisted abraision and could be cut back / reversed / changed without significant cost. I caught lots of fish...

These days, carbon rods are the norm and their relative stiffness keeps better contact with the lure. Add braid and you are in virtual direct contact. Power Pro is good and is quite a stiff braid better suited for multipliers (IMO). Softer braids works better with fixed spool reels.

From the shore, I now tend to use Normark blanks of around 9' with an optimum casting weight of around 15 grams, teamed with a fixed spool and 30lb braid. 10-15 lb mono would be fine too. I have never found the need to use a 'rubbing trace' of hiegher strength / diameter but keep and eye on the condition of the last few yards of your line.

From the boat a similar weight, carbon rod (I like Dave Lumb's baitcasters) of about 7.5' with 5/6000 multiplier is perfect with 50lb braid and a short mono leader.

Use floating poppers / chuggers / walkers for calm conditions surface work, shallow and deep diving plugs (in silver, blue, red head, mackeral pattern work well), and for deeper work use leaded gills and shads (with additional lead).

Fly fishing is a whole new subject.

For bass about a 9 weight shooting head, fast sinking line is a good starting place. Its easy to cast a heavy, wet fly. Avoid baits which take up water as they are a pig to cast. Tie your flies with weed guards and keep knots smooth with an application of super glue to ward off weed. Smaller fish, ie. Mullet, will require lighter lines, perhaps a 5 weight forward taper. Use cheap lines in the salt.

You don't need deep water to fish bass. I have often stood out with my chest waders / dry / wet suit and cast into the shore!

I could go on and on... but I hope this helps.

[Mr. X]

Magpie, were you casting at the CLA Game Fair at Broadlands, Romsey, Hants.?

I went yesterday - it was huge & extremely well done. There were hundreds of fishing stalls next to the River Test (gorgeous river for fly fishing). With flyfishing competitions, lessons & demos.

I resisted the temptation to buy any fishing gear but got a chance to checkout a few reels & a super fly rod by Orvis that had practically no weight at all. There were also some huge game fishing rods & reels ... including a brass reel the size of one of those mega-coffee cans and squid lures the size of my arm; the sort of thing Miles might use! Somebody showed me a picture of a 1000+lb marlin - how on earth do they get that onboard the boat?

Marlin Fishing in Australia with Australian Marlin fishing Charters


Checked out the Shimano Exage 2500 & 4000, the Shimano Stradic 2500 and an Okuma 30 (similar size to the shimano 2500s). All seemed pretty nice. The 2500 & 4000s are both strikingly compact/small although the 2500s are noticeably smaller. The Exage & Stradic are both upper mid-range reels. The Exage is glossy & smooth although the Stradic is even smoother, silky smooth in fact. Seems like you can get an Exage for around 30-40 pounds & the Stradic about half as much again. Didn't see many of the lower range models on display but they were available (e.g. one vendor offer to get a Shimano Nexave from their van), the Shimano Alvio seemed smooth but plasticky.

Picked up a leaflet from a guy called Andrew Bett who has just published a book on using barometers for flyfishing! Apparently insects hatch on a rising barometer, triggering feeding activity in trout and salmon. Didn't have time to hear the whole story though.


Other stuff:
River Cottage had a small food stand tucked away in a corner and the Countryside Alliance hosted an impressive display tent, refreshments tent & demonstrations all day (gun dog training, game preparation, etc.). Fun off-road rides were given by Toyota in a selection of Land Cruisers. Climbing wall, mini off-road go-karts, shooting lessons (clays & archery), cowboy show. For the well heeled: a huge Bentley stand, small Aston Martin stand, Purdey & Churchill gun makers (among many others), & the best porta-loos (& showers) I've ever seen at an outside event (real Armitage Shanks procelain!). We only saw half of the show ground though & hardly any of the numerous simultaneous demonstrations. Lots of kayak stuff too including Perception (including one with 4 rod holders!), Seyvlor inflatible kayaks & numerous sit-ons, inflatibles, dory's, a huge RIB, an aluminium canal longboat and a camo kayak with built-on wildfowling hide & decoys! Quite a few offers & bargains to be had if you were shopping for gear or subscriptions.

[Magpie]

No the event wasn't at the CLA, it needs so much room its difficult to find venues. Put it this way, some of Danny Moeskops crack offs were found 500 yards away!

The competition was great foxy. It was amazing to watch the best in the world showing how it should be done.

Myself I didn't do too badly, in the pendulum section I finished 20th out of 50 something overall (thats combined best casts with 100, 125 and 150grams (218, 223 and 216 metres respectively). I did better in the Off The Ground section, finishing 10th with 214m.

Full results is anyones interested can be found here: http://uksf.sea-angler.org/results/2006plc.html (I'm the small one in the green, front row, centre)

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by Tim1

PMFJI ...
You don't need deep water to fish bass. I have often stood out with my chest waders / dry / wet suit and cast into the shore!
...

Welcome Tim. Just saw your post - that is heck of a lot of useful info. in a single post! Thanks for sharing. What sort of lures do you use? I have been using Rapala-style lures & Eddystone eels so far. I've caught fish in the past on Mepp-style spinners mainly (& mackeral on mackeral spinners & feathers). Found an article on Portland lure fishing at the weekend & the guy's fav. lure is a bright orange jointed lure:

Had to laughed, as I recently painted a big, bright orange Rapala-style lure from a Lidl's tackle box blue & white. I guess the idea is to use something that is hard to miss: bright & vibrating/rattling - rather than worry too much about it looking exactly like a fish. So much for my grey & white Rapala J13 ...actually supposed to be good in clear water on bright days - I can rarely see it in the water though.

Magpie, are the top guys built like shot putters? (Was surprised to see an eating contest on TV in the USA won by a little Japanese guy...up against some of the biggest guys I have ever seen!).

[Tim1]

http://www.harrissportsmail.com/ is a good source of baits. Top tip; make sure you buy baits rigged for sea water. Ordinary bronzed hooks will rust in no time. Usually, subtle actions and colours work better in calmer, clearer, shallower conditions and visa versa.

[Magpie]

Well the best, Danny, is huge yeh, 6ft 4ish, must be 20stone, but he can move so quickly its incredible.
There are other big lads, but most of the best are a fair size but not overly large. Its mostly about technique more than raw power, though power with technique will of course beat the same technique from a weakling like myself

[Hypersquid1]

Finally, something i can relate to on this forum! i have been fishing forever, its so much fun. right now i am using a Penn 5500SS Spinfisher, loaded with 20 lb. Trilene Big Game line, and a 7 foot Shakespeare Ugly Stik rod, which can handle 1-6 oz. lure weight, which is incredible. my favorite type of fishing is going after stripers with plugs and divers. i have a Yo-Zuri crystal minnow with a big lip on it, and i use that from docks around midnight, and the fast, wide wiggling action just drives those stripers nuts! these stripers are in the 19-22 inch range, which in my opinion fights the best. i usually pull in about 12-15 of these a night. its really easy and its so much fun.

now, if i want to get the bigger ones, i have a Penn 310 GTi, loaded with 20 lb. Big Game line, on a Cabela's house brand rod (soon to be replaced). i make a leader out of 50 lb. leader material or out of flurocarbon. on one end i tie a swivel, and on the other i tie either a Penn 5/0 Saltwater hook or a Gamakatsu 6/0 circle hook. then i put an egg sinker on my main line, usually about 3-4 ozs., then, i tie the leader setup to my main line. i throw on a huge ball of squid, cut into strips, and i drop this down to the bottom. i tie my rod into my rod holder, and i put the clicker on. when the clicker starts zinging, i know i have a fish! i have caught 3 25+ lb. stripers, an 18 lb bluefish, a 42 inch long sandshark, and a 5 lb fluke, all with this setup. trust me, it works. well, thats my 2 cents for the day. ill definately be on later with this thread, cheers.

[miles]

Hiya

Its mostly about technique more than raw power, though power with technique will of course beat the same technique from a weakling like myself

ABSOLUTELY correct!! With my crap technique and good raw power, i can only DREAM of 200m casts..... Magpie, well done!!!!

Mr.X, it seems as if you've already started a lure collection!!! I probably have more lures than our local tackle-shop! Every season, you get lulled into buying THE PERFECT lure, only then to have the lure not work for the next couple of seasons!! You'll soon end up with a tackle box FULL of very expensive lures!! If i was restricted to ONE colour, it would most definitely be a RED HEAD. Thats a rapala with a white body and a red head. I've had THE most success with that colour. More good rapala colours are the all grey, called mullet (i like the ones with a bit of red around the gill area of the lure), the carrot (completely orange lure), fire tiger (pearl white lure with orange stripes). In the Halco range, also the red head as well as the all gold colour works extremely well.

Some hints on bait. Fresh bait is ALWAYS better than old bait!! When using squid/calamari or octopus, always bash it with a tenderising hammer. The softer you can get it, the better it will work. Always use squid that is pure white in colour. When they start becoming pinkish, its time to discard the bait. I don't know whether you guys catch your own squid, but we do, and we have a special way of storing them. Firstly, wash them off in clean salt water. Dry off with paper towels. Wrap EACH squid in a sheet of newspaper. Put 5 wrapped squid in a plastic bag, and freeze. If you go fishing, take only how many bags you'll need. After a trip, your left over squid would most likely have thawed. Now you'll have to remove them from the newspaper. Simply pull off the tentacles, the insides will also be ripped out. Remove the plastic peice that is still inside the squid. Now remove the skin, by simply pulling off the small little wings on the top of the squid. Wash in salt water and wrap up again in newspaper. I've kept squid like this for over a year and it still looks VERY FRESH!!

Regards
miles

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by miles

...Mr.X, it seems as if you've already started a lure collection!!! ...You'll soon end up with a tackle box FULL of very expensive lures!! If i was restricted to ONE colour, it would most definitely be a RED HEAD. Thats a rapala with a white body and a red head...

Yes, I have got enough plug/rapala type lures now, including a couple of variations on the white body-red head theme (one made in SA! Real solid, with a long metal lip ). Mind you, I'll be in trouble if I hook a fish the size you guys get though, Miles! (Do you have any of those huge squid lures?) Glad to hear that you are using the red-heads, it crossed my mind that they might be primarily intended for Pike.

I should probably sell some off some lures but will experiment a little first -- although I suspect finding the fish will be more important than chosing a lure. I might get some cheap Toby's (saw several nice sets of 5 for £3 at the Gamefair, various sizes & weights, & in "bass bullet"-style...which are often expensive) & a couple more small Eddystone eels. I was expecting to loose more gear than I have recently. Still, plenty of time for that on holiday!

BTW does anyone bother adding extra weight (to cast further) when using Rapala-style lures?

Originally Posted by miles

...Some hints on bait. Fresh bait is ALWAYS better than old bait!!

The exception that proves the rule: an old friend told me recently his brother caught a huge bass (14lb?) fishing with him one night...on the oldest most festering bait he had ever seen. A lot of land animals like rotten meat because the bacteria have done some of the digestive work for them...and the smell is hard to ignore!

Originally Posted by miles

...When using squid/calamari or octopus, always bash it with a tenderising hammer. The softer you can get it, the better it will work. Always use squid that is pure white in colour. When they start becoming pinkish, its time to discard the bait. I don't know whether you guys catch your own squid, but we do, and we have a special way of storing them. Firstly, wash them off in clean salt water. Dry off with paper towels. Wrap EACH squid in a sheet of newspaper. Put 5 wrapped squid in a plastic bag, and freeze. If you go fishing, take only how many bags you'll need. After a trip, your left over squid would most likely have thawed. Now you'll have to remove them from the newspaper. Simply pull off the tentacles, the insides will also be ripped out. Remove the plastic peice that is still inside the squid. Now remove the skin, by simply pulling off the small little wings on the top of the squid. Wash in salt water and wrap up again in newspaper. I've kept squid like this for over a year and it still looks VERY FRESH!!
...

Sounds like squid & rag worm are the baits of choice. If I caught a squid, it would be served for dinner...so I may need to take Foxfish's advice & visit the freezer section for bait.

BTW anybody watching the series on trawlers (7pm Mon, Tues,... on, maybe BBC?) -- pretty interesting. £1.5m loans on the boats focuses the mind. Weathering out force 10 gales looks pretty grim. Makes you wonder how tough it was in the old days.

[miles]

Hiya

A BIG white or brownish coloured squid works very well for YF, especially if pulled very, very far behind the boat. I pull a BIG squid with a bird more than 40m behind my boat!! How-ever, i prefer the slightly smaller squids, as they tend to catch a larger variety of fish. The BIG squids only seem to attract the attention of 50kg+ YF's, whilst the smaller ones attract ALL the gamefish, regardless of their size. That said, i have caught 2-3kg albacore on the big squids. Looks ridiculous, as the squid is almost as big as the albacore!! Makes me wonder what the fish intended to do with the squid, bigger than itself, when it caught it...........

BTW does anyone bother adding extra weight (to cast further) when using Rapala-style lures?

Depends on how much more weight you need. If its a little more weight, simply change your treble hooks to heavier treble hooks. Be careful on not going to heavy or too large on the trebles, as this will most likely spoil the lures action. For more weight, we simply wrap some soldering wire around the shank of the treble. Once again, ensure that you don't overload your lure.

Regards
miles

[miles]

Some squids.....

[miles]

my favourite surface plugs!!