European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .

[spaghetti]

The ban would be based on "scientific evidence", Defra says.
Could you ask Defra to let you have access to that source of "scientific evidence"? I really do not think that any credible scientific study on the impact of recreational spearfishing in your area does really exist.

In short: they claim scientific evidence. WHERE IS IT?

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

The ban would be based on "scientific evidence", Defra says.
Could you ask Defra to let you have access to that source of "scientific evidence"? I really do not think that any credible scientific study on the impact of recreational spearfishing in your area does really exist.

In short: they claim scientific evidence. WHERE IS IT?

Excellent point Spaghetti (and the fact that it is no more "Destructive" than rod fishing - quite possibly less). It's possible that they have not even considered spear fishing, it might have been whaling or even shooting/bow-hunting fish that they had in mind.

I've received a response from the Scottish Countryside Alliance which is encouraging (included here with permission):

From: Ross-Montague (ross-montague@scottishcountrysidealliance.org)
Sent: Wed 6/25/08 2:28 AM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx

Dear X,

Many thanks for bringing this issue to the attention of the Scottish Countryside Alliance. Have you also emailed my Countryside Alliance colleagues in London regarding this??

Spear fishing does not fall within my personal areas of expertise, however we have a member of the SCA Policy Group who may be able to advise me as to how / if we can proceed with fighting this proposed ban. The forum is also useful for background - thanks.

Will keep you posted.

Regards

Monty

Ross Montague
Head of Policy and Campaigning
Scottish Countryside Alliance
West Mains Cottage
Ingliston
Edinburgh
EH28 8NF
0131 335 0200

P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

I probably should have mentioned that spearos only fish in the sea and then never for game fish (salmon/sea trout), which is fully covered by existing legislation.

[KWM]

Exactly what I said, when speaking to DEFRA. There point is that it was not there idea and has come directly fron the European Union. No one so far has been able to direct me/others to the the scientific evidence that might exist.

It is something that we will however be asking for.

Spagetti can you get this information out on Italian forums explaining that it will affect the whole of the european atlantic coast, Britain, Ireland, Spain, Portugal and France.

Kev

[Padaxes]

Signed the petition, joined the facebook group and emailed as well.

I know someone that works for DEFRA so will have a chat with them about this when I get the chance.

I`m hoping its just badly worded and they are talking about more destructive types of projectiles, not little spearguns......

[KWM]

Unfortunately it was very clear when I spoke to DEFRA and MFA that this meant spearguns.

kev

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by SurfnSpear

...I have seen cross data handling and really it's not worth worrying about anymore, you or anyone else's details are available with the right amount of looking....

From SkyNew today: Police Watchdog: Data Handling Was 'Woefully Inadequate' At HMRC |Sky News|Politics

Police Watchdog: Data System Inadequate

A police watchdog report into the loss of two discs containing the details of 25 million people by HMRC has found that data handling is "woefully inadequate".
...
There was: "a complete lack of any meaningful systems; a lack of understanding of the importance of data handling; and a 'muddle through' ethos.

"Staff found themselves working on a day-to-day basis without adequate support, training or guidance about how to handle sensitive personal data appropriately."

The report appears to contradict Alistair Darling's statement to the House of Commons in November last year when he announced that the discs had been lost in the post.
...
"The package was not recorded or registered."
...
The data loss had been "entirely avoidable", the inquiry found, pointing to "serious institutional deficiencies".
...

I see what you mean

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by KWM

Unfortunately it was very quite clear when I spoke to DEFRA and MFA that this meant spearguns.

kev

I wonder what their reasoning was -- "spear fishing seems a bit foreign" or "speared fish are more dead than those netted or rod caught"? It doesn't make sense. Well, if we have to give up spear fishing there is always pigeon shooting and sedentary obesity as we slip quietly into a premature dotage. Better start booking up high carbon trips abroad (CIs, Med, USA, SA, Mozambique,Oz,NZ,Central/South American,...).

[spaghetti]

Two suggestions:
1) Internationalize the mobilization of spearos. Post this issue on spanish, portuguese and french forums such as "larompiente", "apnea.fr" et cetera (Spaniard can help with spanish language, while our DB forum user M. Cerieiro can help with portuguese, Sarnian speaks good french). Anyway the text of the Commission's proposal is available in all tghe languages of the EU (I've already found it in italian).
The BSA shuold try to get in contact with spanish and portuguese spearfishing federation urgently.
2) challenge DEFRA on the terrain of "scientific avidence". In Italy, our FIPSAS (kind of italian equivalent of the BSA) is now cooperating with the Ministry of environment (i.e. the italian government) to make the first serious study on spearfishing impact.
In short, this is what happened. For years, the public authority has been making the regulations stricter and stricter, claiming a "scientific evidence" asgainst spearfishing. But that scientific evidence does not really exist.
And so the Fipsas told the government: "ok, since research does not exist, let's make it together". Three months ago they (Fipsas and Gov.t) signed a protocol, and now Italy's organized spearos and government are cooperating in making together the first ever serious study on spearfishing impact on fish stocks. I don't know much about the protocols of the research (how it's made in practice) but I can try to gather some infos for you.
If you convince Defra to do such a thing in cooperation with the BSA, you can also convince them to "freeze" any change in regulations until the outcomes of the study are completed. How does it sound?

[KWM]

Can people who speak the needed languages or nationals of those countries contact me with regard to posting on those spearfishing sites associated with the affected countries. We can agree what needs to go up. As Spaghetti says the EU document is already available in all European languages.

Kev

[Tong]

Does anyone know what the EU's definition of "projectile" is? i cant find it in the definitions list in the proposal

[Pastor]

Kev, I PM'd MCerieiro about this, may be worth dropping him one also. He is Portugese by the way.

Only 22 people signed that petition so far, bit disappointing given the amount of UK members we have here. Now is the time to say something not in 12 months time when a fisheries officer is confiscating your boat etc!

[MrCoombe]

Is there any chance of getting this into the news section when you log on to this site, I only found it because of a link in the Cornwall thread, the more people who know the more, I am sure, will sign up.

[azapa]

I can do LaRompiente in Spanish, I am already a user there. Now, forgive my total ignorance, having read the entire thread, but, in a step by step list format, what should any non-UK or non Euro residents do to help?

[MCerieiro]

Originally Posted by Pastor

Kev, I PM'd MCerieiro about this, may be worth dropping him one also. He is Portugese by the way.

Only 22 people signed that petition so far, bit disappointing given the amount of UK members we have here. Now is the time to say something not in 12 months time when a fisheries officer is confiscating your boat etc!

Hi guys,
I will post all the information in the 2 major Portuguese forums, and i will also send an email to the APPSA (Portuguese Association of Freediving and Spearfishing) and to FPAS (Portuguese Federation of underwater activities)

Can i help in any other way?

Cheers,
Marco

[ben]

Ok,

So what about some letters of support from the likes of Gordon Ramsey and Hugh FW. Both have been spearfishing, both stand for sustainable local food production/collection and both have fantastic profiles and are recognised by the powers that be as being credible media heavyweights.

Dave T must have some contacts for Gordon and I may be able to get in touch with Hugh through a friend of a friend unless someone on here knows him personally?

Has anyone let OCEANA know what's going on? I see their advert on the DB homepage. As I understand they are heavily involved with international high level intergovenmental advisory and consultation stuff regarding all sorts of marine issues, fisheries and best practice. I have a feeling they are predominantly based in the US but are certainly increasingly active over here. If someone has already informed them then I wont bother but I have access through a colleague to their European guys.

If it hasn't already been done ill make some efforts to contact them....