forehead pain

[yiorgos]

Hallo to all!
I am new to freediving and the forum.
I wonder if anyone has experienced pain on the forehead. Sometimes I cannot go below 3-4 meters, because of this. The pain is at the internal edge of the right eyebrow. A few times, blood has come out of the nose after some shallow dives and after I blew my nose. What is causing this? Equalisation for the ears is good, no pain. Any suggestions? what can I do?
thanks, every suggestion is welcome
Yiorgos
from Greece

[yiorgos]

sorry by mistake I put it up under equipment.

[spearheads]

I get a similar pain when ever my sinuses are stuffy.
Have you got a cold, also try a strong chewing gum to clear the nose before diving

[JPPLAY]

Trying taking some sudafed before you dive to help clear the sinuses. Don't become dependent on it though. You may have to change you diet to prevent mucous build up if that is the problem.

[Adrian]

Hi yiorgos and welcome to DeeperBlue!

This is definitely a sinus problem, do a search on "sinus", a lot has been written on that subject. Don't force it as you can damage to the point of having to stay out of the water for weeks!

Adrian

[yiorgos]

Thanks everyone for the replies..!
JJPLAY, very interesting! have you any specific diet to suggest? What food to avoid or to prefer? thanks again!
Yiorgos

[deep thinker]

Food responsible for mucous buildup will mostly be dairy products, cheeses and full cream milk etc. Also high sugar and so on. But it also varies from person to person and youll know what to change or avoid when you eat it. I also concur with the rest that its most possibly a sinus problem youve got, sudafed will work and if the problem persists I suggest you go see a doc to prescribe a coarse of anti biotics to clear up your sinuses.
Good luck and save diving

[SEDATE]

yiorgos ,my friend
before you dive check your e-tube open/close at surface and be sure equal your mask at surface ,too
if you feel blocked clean a few times with sea water , fill and clean and check your e-tube open/close at surface again , if i is ok ..go !
best sinus cleaner is sea water Don't force it -cancel diving -needed!

[yiorgos]

guys, thanks very much for the suggestions...
Sudafed is not available in greece under this name. So I went to the doctor and gave me a cortisone spray. It worked, but only for the course of the treatment. My nose is still a bit stuffed after I stopped the spray and I havent been diving to see any effect on sinus equalisation. I will also try to limit cow's products -I don't know if there is any scientific evidence but if you don't try on yourself you never know... !! and wash nose with sea water.. I think it is very simple and effective suggestion
regards,
yiorgos

[yiorgos]

update on the forehead pain:
for those who have similar problems... or might have in the future...(hope not)

I did a CT scan and showed inflammed mucosa of all the sinuses. That blocked the sinuses so I couldn't equalise therefore I got the forehead pain...

treatment I received by a good allergy doctor (I have spring pollen allergy) :
6 days on cortisone pills, then antibiotics for 12 days (right now I am taking antibiotics) and another 6 days of cortisone pills.
It feels much better already and also on diving!

another option for blocked sinuses I have heard yesterday by a diver friend is laser treatment, they cauterise the foramens so it stays open and the built up is clearing for months... anyone else know about this treatment option?
FESS is another option, but takes longer to rehabilitate (you can see a relevant thread). Laser, from what i have heard, has minimal -close to zero-recovery time....

I think its worth considering for divers (and not) with similar problems..
anyone else has experience on this? any ENT surgeon on the forum?
any divers with blocked sinuses?

regards

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by yiorgos

...I did a CT scan and showed inflammed mucosa of all the sinuses. That blocked the sinuses so I couldn't equalise therefore I got the forehead pain...

treatment I received by a good allergy doctor (I have spring pollen allergy) :
6 days on cortisone pills, then antibiotics for 12 days (right now I am taking antibiotics) and another 6 days of cortisone pills.
It feels much better already and also on diving!

another option for blocked sinuses I have heard yesterday by a diver friend is laser treatment, they cauterise the foramens so it stays open and the built up is clearing for months... anyone else know about this treatment option?
FESS is another option, but takes longer to rehabilitate (you can see a relevant thread). Laser, from what i have heard, has minimal -close to zero-recovery time....
...

I had a similar experience in America a few years ago. The Dr. gave me a CT scan at that time & suggested a common over-the-counter-medicine (the name of which escapes me), which I think was a mixture of ibuprofen* and some other medicine. He offered a spray but knowing that I prefer not to take medicines unless absolutely necessary - he said it might actually make things worse! Although I had not previously had allergy issues, I think I had become allergic to the pollen in the area as other family members had, in one case very seriously. April was the worst month for us (lots of tree pollen) & we lived in a "city" that was basically a forest with houses (mainly maples & conifers). Even now, we often head to the coast in April for some relief, although things seem much better for us back here in the UK. A retired neighbour recently moved to Australia and soon aquired asthma and pollen allergies ...so perhaps it has something to with pollens that you are not used to? Several other Brits in the same area as us, especially the women, got asthma, allergies and/or ecsema (sp?) after 2 years of being there; a Chinese friend told me many of the Chinese in the area aquired similar problems, although usually after 4 years in the area.

April & early May was bad for us but there are several other times which can affect different people in different ways (grass pollen, weed pollen, mold spores,...). Spring & Summer are usually worse but I read somewhere that you can even get pollen in January!

If it continues or gets worse, I'd suggest you go back to the doctor. It is possible to get a sinus infection that requires antibiotics...if left untreated, things can get very nasty.

I'm not familiar with the operation that you mentioned but it seems a bit drastic if this is the first time you have experienced this. That said, if it helps keep the nose clear it might well avoid more serious problems - although I would personally avoid things which circumvent your body's natural defenses, unless they are harming you. Did you doctor check for nasal polyps?

I would think antihistamines might also help but consult a physician first (even though you can get these over-the-counter in the USA), if you have a sinus infection it might make things worse.

*Some people are allergic to ibuprofen (20% of asthmatics). Some people become allergic to ibuprofen with the onset of asthma, which can occur in your 30s, 40s,...,70s,...?

[Yogaman]

Okay, so this is gonna sound a bit wierd, but I'm sure it contributed to my sinuses clearing up! (I used to often have sinus issues and wouls have to abort dives because of nosebleeds and pain - especially from frontal sinus).

Anyway, whenever i was a bit 'clogged up' and knew I would be diving in the next few days, I would visualize my sinuses being perfectly clear and clean - like a great, big, airy, space, full of fresh, flowing air (sometimes I'd picture that my sinus cavities and channels were a big beach scene on a warm day, with moist, but fresh, flowing sunny air going through them).

Whenever my sinuses were on my mind, I pictured the above. I definitely think it contributed to clear sinuses, and would suggest you try it - as unconventional as it is!

[Mr. X]

There is something called Buteyko Technique that helps asthmatics control their condition. From what I have seen, it can be very effective; for example, allowing an asthmatic to stop an asthma attack.

They have a simple nose clearing technique which I have seen used very effectively although I haven't used it myself (yet). You just pinch your nose and nod your head gently a few times. There are some slides of it on-line (first 4 slides cover it): Buteyko Breathing Technique: A Demonstration » SlideShare

More info. on Buteyko at: Buteyko method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[colt.45]

I have the same forehead thing happen to me except on the left eyebrow. It's only happened twice in the past year or two and I don't think that it has to much to do with sinuses because I was clear both times that it happened and it has been on the same side both times.

[azapa]

do you dive in cold water? does your wetsuit fit right up until the mask?? Mine does not and it gives me 10 mins of pain on the way into the water. Things are OK afterwards though, and I secretly think it helps my dive reflex... (dreaming)

re-sinuses, a crusty old spearo gave me a great tip: on entering the water, take your mask off, face down in the water and "sniff in" a little salty water. Put the mask back on after about 15 sec.s and in about 10 mins things should get flowing (out). I assume that this would be a very bad idea for sensitive sinuses or with dirty water, neither of which I suffer,. It has helped me a lot to clear blockages.