The stigma of seizures and black-outs

[billieball]

Thanks all! You learn something new every single day!

[Lazuli]

Originally Posted by naiad

Lazuli, thanks for sharing. I hope you get the problem sorted and find a doctor who is understanding.

Well... I'm working on it but expect to have something of an uphill struggle. This is because I need to establish that it was a provoked seizure and not an unprovoked/unexplained loss of consciousness or epilepsy. If I can find a doctor/consultant who understands the stress I put my body under, I will stand a better chance of avoiding a misdiagnosis and the horrors that come with it. When I passed out I also took a blow to the head which I feel aggravated the convulsions and possibly added concussion into the mix - hence why I passed out in the ambulance on the way to casualty.

[ILDiver]

Good god man! Do we have to pitch in and buy you a helmet! Someone already mentioned it but, if you haven't already, give D.A.N. a look. They are good coverage to have and could very well advise you on this and possibly give you the name of a good doctor.

[RogueCanadian]

Hey Lazuli,

although new to the forum I'm not new to Seizures as A close relative of mine suffers from a seizure disorder (not epylepsy) and they can be triggered but almost anything. She actually played hockey and had her first grand mal triggered by the flourescent lights in the rink. this was in her late teens. What you described sounds exactly like a grand mal. With that being said, there are a hundred other possibilities to consider. Have you been tested for diabetes? A good griend of mine developed it in his mid 20's and had similar sympoms right before he was hospitalized. You did however mention that your vision is fine so who knows.

I'm with the rest of the gang here by saying, find a doctor that dives. These kinds of medical mysteries only lead to a fast and often premature diagnosis of something completely wrong in the hands of a doctor who thinks they have it figured out and are mentally checked out thinking the case is solved and closed.

You definitely want to be able to dive and you certainly want you driving record and any possible job in the future to be view as "clean bill of health"

Find a doctor who knows where your coming from and will help you get back to diving confidently

One thing I would reccomend however is that if you do have a steady dive buddy and you are nervous about this happening again, make sure you instruct them on how to deal with a seizure (as a percaution), especially a grand mal, if one actually happens. On land the best thing to do is support the victim's head to protect it from banging into the ground, lay them on their side as best as possible and clear the way of their legs so they dont injure temselves by kicking anything. never put anything in their mouth to stop them from swallowing their tounge. That is a wives tail. if they are on their side it won't happen.

You may also want to read up on how to deal with a vicim of siezure in the water. just in case...it's better to know what to do and never have to use it than have no idea and be caught out. I think we can all safely agree that freediving is a sport based on lots of preparation

Anyway mate - that was a long post on my part - I just hate hearing stories of people being limited from their passions by an uncontrollable aspect of their life.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Rogue

[wes]

Just a not staying hydrated and on the horrors of caffeine and/or sugar (like in coffee or soda) is tha t I have read that in military camps for desert acclimation where they train troops to deal with heat and stress they OUTLAW soda any where on the base as it has been implicated in so many incidents and I believe only let the troops drink water only (I am not sure about coffee).

Cheers Wes

[trux]

Also Aspartame used as artificial sweetener in soda, and in many other alimentary products, is suspected to promote seizures and many other health problems. There were already attempts to outlaw Aspartame, but the political interests behind it seem to be more important than the health, so it will likely not happen any soon. However, if you regularly consume drinks or food with artificial sweeteners, or use chewing-gums, I highly recommend studying about the effects of aspartame.

Some scientists go even so far that they call Aspartame a dangerous neurotoxin.

There also some other effects of Aspartame that may have great influence on the performance or safety while freediving.

There are some links here below, but you will certainly find many more:

Effect of aspartame on seizures in various models ...[Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 1988] - PubMed Result
Fernandina Beach, FL, News-Leader newspaper. The local news source for Amelia Island and Fernandina Beach, FL
Bad News about products with Aspartame
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:38:14 -0500
Aspartame-induced dyspnea and pulmonary hypertension. - Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients | Encyclopedia.com
Aspartame-induced arrhythmias and sudden death.(Letters to the Editor)(Letter to the Editor) - Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients | Encyclopedia.com
aspartame seizure - Google Search
aspartame acidosis - Google Search
aspartame apnea - Google Search

[Lazuli]

I got the all-clear yesterday which was a relief after a month of being banned from diving and driving. They suspect it was a vaso vagal attack with added syncope (?) as nothing odd came up on the MRI and EEG. Interestingly a technologist and a neurological consultant both referred to what they described as an "infamous" German medical film in which a number of students were made to pass out (by exhaling whilst crouched then standing up really fast and taking a deep breath). A significant number of the test subjects blacked out and had convulsions. Doctors were then shown clips of the convulsing students and were asked to comment on what was happening. Almost all were convinced they were looking at epilepsy and were shocked to be told that it was a syncope / black out episode.

One of the doctors I met knew a bit about freediving and gave me a mini lecture on why human physiology is far inferior to that of aquatic mammals due to x, y & z. He also referred to "a Frenchman" who "we" lost not too long ago to the sport (any clues? Pardon my ignorance.) Amazingly he told me that I had no reason to give-up freediving (as long as I did it safely!)

Still, I feel like I have had a warning as the last place I would like to lose consciousness is in murky UK waters. Apnea course here I come....

TRUX....
That Aspartame info is really sinister stuff. Its not going to pass my lips anytime soon. I have also ditched coffee and feel really good in the mornings now, less edgy.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by wes

Just a not staying hydrated and on the horrors of caffeine and/or sugar (like in coffee or soda) is tha t I have read that in military camps for desert acclimation where they train troops to deal with heat and stress they OUTLAW soda any where on the base as it has been implicated in so many incidents and I believe only let the troops drink water only (I am not sure about coffee).

My neighbour is a retired long time army officer and instructor. He recently expressed concerned about all the talk of low salt diets. In the past, when the troops were stationed in hot climates they were given salt tablets (sodium & potassium chloride?). I think the idea is that it allows/encourages them to drink the large volume of water needed in such hot climates and also provides essential replacement electrolytes, like an early version of Gatorade or Cytomax.

Re. Aspartame, I had a vegan friend who lived not far from the Nutrasweet headquarters in Illinois that used to send me references to the supposed health problems with aspartame (and also milk/dairy products). One claimed it lowers your IQ. Some people are unable to break it down (I think they test new borns for this in the USA). Although the "natural" alternative, sugar, is not without health implications.

[naiad]

Good to know that you got the all-clear.

Originally Posted by Lazuli

One of the doctors I met knew a bit about freediving and gave me a mini lecture on why human physiology is far inferior to that of aquatic mammals due to x, y & z. He also referred to "a Frenchman" who "we" lost not too long ago to the sport (any clues? Pardon my ignorance.) Amazingly he told me that I had no reason to give-up freediving (as long as I did it safely!)

Also good that you found a doctor who knows about freediving.
The 'Frenchman' he referred to was probably Loic Leferme.

[trux]

Congrats, Lazuli, to the clearing diagnosis!

Originally Posted by Mr. X

Although the "natural" alternative, sugar, is not without health implications.

Yes, consuming sugar is pretty unhealthy too, and frankly told I never understood why people had to fill themselves with sugar (or Aspartame) in coffee and tea, when the pure variants are much more tasty. I also do not understand why people consume liters of soda each day, when they can drink water. So I would not tell that sugar is a natural alternative to Aspartame. The most natural alternative is not using any sweetener at all. Sweeteners only kill the real taste of good food and drinks, or cover the bad taste of junk food. You better avoid them, or limit their intake to necessary minimum, than replacing them with something else. The additional plus will be that you start enjoying the real taste of good food.

Well, I am not against occasional consumption of cakes, chocolate, or even some sweet drinks, but really see no reason why would I need to consume daily high doses of sugar or Aspartame in drinks that are in fact much better without it.

[Lazuli]

I think salt has had quite a bad press. Before my black-out I was rather salt averse. To try and restore my equilibrium I upped my salt intake (slightly) and ensured that I was drinking a minimum of 1.5 litres of water per day. I've felt so much better since. I never was a fan of synthetic and processed food and drink but was a bit slack when it came to hydrating. Before a dive I usually trough a Mars bar and have some water, just to be sure that I don't go hypoglycaemic whilst in the water. I came close to passing out once due to low sugar whilst heavy backpacking in the mountains. Felt extremely faint and dizzy, unable to go on, had a Fudge bar and was instantly back on my feet. Its amazing how the body's levels can change.

[naiad]

Originally Posted by Lazuli

I think salt has had quite a bad press.

True. I have low blood pressure and no medical problems that need a low salt diet, so I do not try to avoid salt. I have even heard it being described as a 'toxin', which it can be if taken to excess, but it is also an essential mineral.