The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diameter

[foxfish]

Fascinating how the gun is developing! Not for one second did I think we would be building a 90 single band gun! & now we might have one with a enclosed track
Great stuff

[foxfish]

There has been a few posts suggesting an enclosed track is not necessary but are there any disadvantages?

[spaghetti]

Originally Posted by foxfish

There has been a few posts suggesting an enclosed track is not necessary but are there any disadvantages?

Well Foxy I've never seen an enclosed track gun in my whole life if not in pictures, and it wouldn't be smart of me to comment about a type gun that I've never used, never seen, never discussed much about either.
But let's see the possible downsides, and let's find a solution for each of them. I like Pastor's input to be at the forefront of design and I'm enthusiastic of this mission to design something new, something very special.
I think the possible (read carefully: I said "possible") disadvantages on an enclosed track single band 90cm eurogun could be the following:
1) I guess you won't have the cleanest and most immediate view on the shaft, cause the spear will be "buried" into the barrell, making the aiming less immediate.
2) To make room for the enclosed track we'll have to carve away a big amount of mass inside the barrell, and we'll have to compensate with a wide, maybe bulky overall mass and thickness of the barrell. This is likely to affect badly the tracking/swinging of the gun.
3) Tracking: if the gun has much mass in the side of the muzzle, it won't be easy to track also due to the physics law of levers and arms.
4) Maybe the track might give a lot of drag wasting power of the shaft
...
None of these possible downsides will in any case affect accuracy.
1) The fact that aiming might be uneasy doesn't mean that the shaft won't go straight. It will go straight. But we must find a way to make the aiming more immediate ebcause even the most accurate, sharpshooting gun must be aimed right on target (how? longer shaft? paint an aiming line in fluo yellow along the upper edges of the track? As you see I din't mention a laser pointer , I'm in the good spirit for helping, of course).
2) The big bulky mass with a thin shaft won't affect accuracy as the opposite would do (thick shaft w. thin gun means inaccuracy: I think it has to do with the physical law of Momentum).
Solutions have to do with a slick shape to make the gun track sweetly despite its mass (and the distribution of the mass).
I have a few ideas but maybe too fancy...

[podge]

Spaggie you’re from Italy, it’s supposed to be fancy after all just look at your car’s they’re all pretty fancy and I own one of them just like I’d love to own this super fancy speargun. You fancy away mate as for one I’m all ears and eyes awaiting your input.
After all this is going to be a one off custom built gun so why not break a few rules in the building of it.

[Pastor]

Actually you don't remove more material with an enclosed track you add a little more around the shaft which in itself can reduce drag caused by turbulance. Now if it does end up with a cuttlefish shape than the bands could be partially sunk into the wings to reduce drag even further. The possibilities are endless!

Now how did we used to aim those old closed muzzle euro guns?

[foxfish]

I have only built one wooden Euro style enclosed track gun but it has a very slim muzzle & offers a fantastic sight line.
I will rig the spear (when is arrives) with a ring slider because I dont want to spoil the sight line with line running back down the spear.
& before Pastor makes some hilarious comment - no that is not my hand!

[blaiz]

any thoughts on the slide ring being too loud when fired? I know my first gun had a ring on it and I hated it.

[foxfish]

Well I was not suggesting that our gun will have a slider just that mine will but to answer your question, no very quiet if you use derlin plastic.
Lots of people will tell you ring sliders are crap but some of the worlds most powerful & accurate guns use them as standard - like my mamba!
There are lots of statements about spear guns that I feel are far to broad to be correct in every instance.

[foxfish]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

Well Foxy Solutions have to do with a slick shape to make the gun track sweetly despite its mass (and the distribution of the mass).
I have a few ideas but maybe too fancy...

I hope we get to hear about those ideas?

[Mongrel454]

The fancier the better....Speak up Spaghetti

[Dobs]

The only real downside I see in enclosed track will be the difficulty in finding spears with big sharkfins. There are not that many producers making 120-130cm-long 6.5mm shafts with big sharkfins. Actually I cannot remember a single one right now...

[Marwan]

Dobs, youre right, they're definitely not common, i managed to find one in greece though, but im not sure if the fins are big enough for enclosed track or not, there were also spears from Salvi with the same specs:
BleuTec - Βέργα ταϊτής μονόφτερη με καρχαριάκια πάχους

[podge]

It’s getting better all the time; a true custom made gun and now with a custom made spear. It don’t come much better.

[spaghetti]

Originally Posted by Pastor

Actually you don't remove more material with an enclosed track you add a little more around the shaft which in itself can reduce drag caused by turbulance. Now if it does end up with a cuttlefish shape than the bands could be partially sunk into the wings to reduce drag even further. The possibilities are endless!

Agreed. For sure a cuttlefish bone section should have grooves to hide the bands in.
But now excuse me I have a question about Foxy's drawing of an enclosed track. Is this the section of the track placed on top of the barrell? How woulfd the section of the whole barrell+track ideally look like?

[settingsteel]

Originally Posted by foxfish

Well I was not suggesting that our gun will have a slider just that mine will but to answer your question, no very quiet if you use derlin plastic.
Lots of people will tell you ring sliders are crap but some of the worlds most powerful & accurate guns use them as standard - like my mamba!
There are lots of statements about spear guns that I feel are far to broad to be correct in every instance.

I agree plus some "state of the art" sliders make IMO loading a tad quicker

The only real downside I see in enclosed track will be the difficulty in finding spears with big sharkfins. There are not that many producers making 120-130cm-long 6.5mm shafts with big sharkfins. Actually I cannot remember a single one right now

good point Dobs Riffes (fins) and Ray Odor (pins) are the ones I use....but the trig mech. I use fits these shafts...so the trig mech would be a determining factor on availibility of shaft....food for thought anyways.