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#1
April 28th, 2008
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I know a lot of you guys are vehemently opposed to spearing on scuba, and this is pretty much the same thing. BUT, since i do have a hookah unit i figure i have to try it at least once.
So do you have any tips for doing such a thing? Will the noise of the hookah scare the fish away? What about the bubbles? And some questions on the compressed air. I do have my open water certification, but they don't really cover some of the things i want to know. Since I'm going to be diving to a max of 40 feet (about 12.5 meters), how much does the compressed air matter? Do I still have to calc the dive time from a table at such a shallow depth? If so, how shallow do I have to be to take the bends out of the equation? Is it safe to hold your breath on compressed air if you are at a steady depth? (I.e. the ocean floor) I have two egressor belts with pony bottles on them. The only thing I don't like about them is how cumbersome they are. How dangerous would it be to dive without them? I hope some of you can help. And don't worry, unless lots of people tell me otherwise, I am going to take every safety precaution I can think of. I like to breathe. 
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#2
April 28th, 2008
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Hunt however you want (with an ethical take) and ignore anyone who tells you otherwise.
Treat this exactly like SCUBA. You need to observe all the same safety, probably with more awareness as it might feel like your freediving- you might easily do rapid ascents etc. Calculate bottom times etc. The greatest risk IMO is rapid ascent and air embolism. If you're staying around 30' then there's little chance of DCS, but follow SCUBA tables and you will be as fine as can be. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH AT ANY TIME ON COMPRESSED GAS OF ANY KIND, EVER!! That's the Open Water SCUBA course in a nutshell. Maybe consider a refresher SCUBA course or at least read the manual again.... you have forgotten some of the most important aspects my friend. Learn how to do a controlled emergency swimming ascent from compressed gas diving. Compressed gas is dangerous so please be careful  And let us know how the hunt goes.
__________________
"Live your own life, for you will die your own death" Roman proverb... http://www.beyondselfnow.com/
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#3
April 28th, 2008
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While I probably wouldn't hunt using a hookah system, it does seem like it would be fun to use while messing around exploring rocks and stuff, so I wouldnt feel as much a need to ascent (fish on or the like). Let us know how you make out.
Another question, what if you were to use the hookah as a method to "breath up" while under water, but treat it like doing an FRC dive, where you exhale immidiately after breathing from the hookah? Please keep in mind I have no scuba experience of any kind. Thanks for letting me add to your post as well!
__________________
"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
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#4
April 28th, 2008
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Forgive me for not being clear. I remember quite vividly all the rules of breathing underwater. I just wanted to know about holding your breath at a "secure" depth for short period of time (less than a minute). If you are not ascending or descending, where is the danger? Is it the volume of nitrogen in your lungs? If thats the case, how does breathing regularly help? These are questions I was to green to know to ask my scuba instructor. But I do know several dive masters in the area, so i'll ask them about this if I see them.
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#5
April 28th, 2008
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Holding your breath whilst carefully maintaining your depth should be no problem but you must make sure that you don't ascend any. My major worry with Hookah would be the risk of getting lines wrapped around the hose by a loony fish
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#6
April 28th, 2008
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. I think it would be ok in theory (not sure about the Nitrogen retention or CO2/O2 factors), but in practice, probably a bad idea if you got into a bad situation. If you have a panic situation, your natural reaction is to hold your breath, and if you've been reinforcing that during compressed gas diving, then it's probably more likely that you will not exhale on the way up... 'pop'. When I was a SCUBA guy, I'd get into some serious slow breathing patterns and I noticed I got brutal headaches, probably from the CO2. Cheers and take care, Erik
__________________
"Live your own life, for you will die your own death" Roman proverb... http://www.beyondselfnow.com/
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#7
April 28th, 2008
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ay-yo,
what in the world is hookah??? i been divin since i was born an never heard the word....is that another word for snuba? diving with a long hose pumping compressed air down? holding your breath at any given deapth is no problem, even if you were to go down, your lungs would compensate for the compressing of the air inside them. as was mentioned, and is a real hazzard, is in ascending while holding your breath..air expands and cant escape cause you're holding it in and...yes...pop....lung overexpansion injury--tears your lungs apart, can also cause embolism (pushes small bubbles of air into cappilaries of blood yu got in yur lungs--get to your brain and "game over, please deposit another 25 cents"). as mentioned, you should never hold your breath cause you might be ascending and not realize it, and also yu can become used to doing it and do it unconsciously while ascending. this have nothing to do with nitrogen, nor oxygen....simple fact that air expands while yu ascend and if yu hold your breath your lungs blow. saw it in st thomas, usvi, damn ugly..dude come up coughin and spittin blood...but lots of blood...went into shock and passed out, ambulance took him away--paramedic was talkin "embolism this, embolism that" which could be the case as well, but his lungs was torn apart for sure. if yu on the bottom and aint movin, its no problem....but like i said, its habit forming, specially if you used to freedivin...but maintaining the same depth or descending is ok...
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Re: Hunting on Hookah
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#8
April 28th, 2008
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Hookah is a petrol driven air compressor floating on an inflatable ring with 2 hoses supplying regulators and fitted to harnesses. You swim along towing it like a SMB (surface marker bouy). Main fishing uses are for collecting shellfish, like scallops or abalones. Because the hoses are relatively short the maximum depth is 30 to 40 foot. At this depth you get all day before you need to consider nitrogen absorbtion. I think they might work well for catching flatfish, which often are found in shallowish water and rely on their camouflage. You'd only need a handspear. Fish that "hole up" could also be targetted. Re holding your breath I can only see the advantage of not producing bubbles for a minute or so. If you were stationary that would work. Otherwise there's no need to hold your breath at all as you have a limitless air supply and I don't think it is a good habit to get into. Maybe you're thinking about holding your breath to stop bubbles as you stalk a fish but you still have the noise of the compressor engine. Try it and see, then tell us about it. Dave
__________________
Born to fish. Forced to work.
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#9
April 28th, 2008
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#10
April 28th, 2008
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I haven't used tables for 20 years since I aquired a reliable dive computer. However the original tables that were widely used (French Naval) used to give unlimited time at less than 40 foot. The arguemant being that at some point the partial pressure is insufficient to drive nitrogen into suspension in the blood stream. That limit was 1.25bar (relative) or 2.25 bar (absolute) or about 40 foot.
Since then advances in medical understanding including absorbtion into multiple tissue types has lowered almost year on year the limits of no-stop diving. There is also no small element of risk avoidance and litergation in the newer figures. 60 minutes at 60 foot was the easily remembered benchmark. My Suunto now only gives me 53 minutes at 60ft. Maybe the safe absolute no-stop limit is now 30 foot, but 40 foot is still going to be reasonable. If in doubt ... be safe. Good luck. Dave
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Born to fish. Forced to work. Last edited by Old Man Dave; April 28th, 2008 at 23:21.
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#11
April 29th, 2008
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Since everyone is being critical of the holding your breath idea I figured I'd throw in another problem. If you are stalking the fish you'll have to tow the hookah float behind you as you move along (slowing you down) So it will probably severely inhibit your ability to catch up with fish or move quickly enough to spot them before they spot you. Then there is the option of not towing the hookah system and removing the regulator while you hold your breath...then returning to it after you shoot the fish or once you need air (this way you can stay down while still stalking and not let having to tow the hookah system around slow you down) FOR OBVIOUS REASONS THIS IS A REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA. If the fish pulls you too far from the hookah regulator you'll be stuck and forced to ascend (bad)
 if you accidentally swim too far because you're not paying attention you could be forced to ascend (bad) if the hookah float gets pushed away from wind or current you could be forced to ascend (bad) I have thought about all of this because a friend of mine had one and I thought about using it for spearing. All in all it's bound to fail.  The systems are really good for treasure hunting/ recovery operations (which is one of their primary uses), commercial work under boats (their other primary use), then a lot of people use them to collect shellfish too. Other than these uses they are pretty limited. Oh and those women in the mermaid costumes in underwater shows at seaworld or wherever use them too 
__________________
“You should never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die." - Frank Herbert
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#12
April 29th, 2008
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#14
April 29th, 2008
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boys,
i give ya my opinion on headaches....i, rather, think its due to a build-up of CO2 rather than lack of oxygen....that's for holding your breath underwater while using hookah or scuba....air on the surface we breathe has 21% oxygen, that's a partial pressure of .21....at ten meters (33ft), the partial pressure of oxygen you breathe is .42 (cause you have 2 bar pressure at 10 meters..2X.21=.42). you got more oxygen (twice as much) in every breath you take....we can black out when that drops down below .16 so it will take a lot longer than a normal breath held by freedivers...whereas the CO2 builds up as it normally would if you were freediving....if anyone wanna know more you can write me a private message, i studied this stuff, and rebreathers too... happy huntin.... z-ya
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#15
May 9th, 2008
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Hey Guys,
Let me tell yall from experience.... Hooka spearfishing is bad ass!!!! To the dude that thinks your gonna unhook yourself and out swim a fish is smokin some good s#*t. You never win the chase game with a fiiaach. Never unhook your self. I go 40' to 45' all the time and never had problem. I've also been dumb enough to go without the spare air. But let me tell you, You can take your sweeeeeet time and get your fish. I'm talkin 4 hr. down time. I have the big hooka, 4 divers and up to 100' if I wanted to. But I now my safe limits not to mention my other buddies lives. When your lookin for grouper, in all the holes and nooky nooks. I don't mind free diving in 20' to 30'. but nothing beats the hooka for the 40s and 50s. I know. Some of you think its cheatin. But my Fry Daddy has no concience. Good luck and be careful. The Impaler
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