apnea nutrition

[cebaztian]

So, does this guy know what he is talking about?
Freediving nutrition


Sebastian

[trux]

Originally Posted by cebaztian

So, does this guy know what he is talking about?

Hard to tell, but seeing the author Tomas Schiffer works at the Karolinska Institute, Stockholm University, where there are also several other very important researchers in the field of freediving physiology, I'd tell he has good prepositions for it. And as his landsman you may be able to get some personal opinions better than us.

However, it is definitely interesting reading, although there is not yet too much information available. I've added the documents to the Freediving Media Base. Together with some other documents on nutrition, they are available here: nutrition @ APNEA.cz

[trux]

Good reading indeed, and I personally also agree with the note on the website telling "Never exaggerate the intake of supplements, especially not under a long time since that can lead to a disturbed homeostasis with unknown side effects!". It also does not mean that what is good for your apnea performance is good for your health too.

I found quite interesting also the document about dairy products and mucus (http://www.apneanutrition.com/mucus.pdf), where they did not manage to find any proof of negative effect of dairy products on the mucus build-up, which is otherwise mostly accepted as fact in freediving documents, books and courses. Good to know. Personally, I never observed any difference in mucus build-up with and without dairy products either.

[ILDiver]

I have not read through the site yet, but do plan to. On the Mucus build up, I think that is different for every person. (Correct me if I'm wrong, since that is why I'm posting my experience) I've had a lot of mucus build up for as long as I can remember and I sort of learned to deal with it. It always bothered me though.

When I went to Florida in April my sinuses cleared up. I thought it was the weather and saltwater. Once I got home it returned. I realized that I stopped eating cereal and drinking milk while I was in Florida and started again when I got home. I have since stopped drinking milk and only have cheese on limited items and my sinuses have cleared tremendously. I've heard that it has something to do with MSG, but I don't know for sure. I assume I am somewhat Lactose intolerant.

For me, I've found cutting the dairy intake down has helped.

[trux]

Originally Posted by ILDiver

I have not read through the site yet, but do plan to. On the Mucus build up, I think that is different for every person. (Correct me if I'm wrong, since that is why I'm posting my experience)

There are indeed great differences among people as for lactose tolerance goes, but the experiments described in the document failed to prove any influence of dairy products on mucus build-up even at people who were convinced of the negative effect of milk. They used double blind test with real (lactic) and placebo (lactose-free) beverages.

The document is quite short, so I recommend reading it. The experiments are then described in studies linked at the bottom of the page.

[ILDiver]

That bit seems to be talking about the instant reaction to the milk. I get that feeling, but it is temporary and does not bother me.

The effects I feel build up if I have a glass of milk for say, 2 or 3 days in a row, then my sinuses fill up non stop. I can blow my nose and clear it completely and 5 minutes later do it again. I know weather and allergies can also play a roll as well. I've been *testing* my bodies reaction over the past couple of months.

That said, I have not had issues with clearing, even when I have the mucus buildup. Maybe now I can work on hands free clearing

(Again, this is my own non-scientific findings and for discussion)

[naiad]

I have had a lot of nasal/sinus congestion problems all my life and eating/avoiding dairy products does not make the slightest difference. Of course, everyone is different and for some people it seems to work, but give it a fair trial and if it does not have any noticeable effect for you, there is no point in avoiding dairy products.

Same goes for wheat/cereal products and meat.

[jome]

At least I like the approach, waiting for more stuff. I like the general advice, many "internet nutritionists" seem to miss that point completely.

About the milk thing - that's basically word to word what I got from another researcher (the ph.d type, not the internet forum kind). Personally I don't feel a difference - I tried going without milk for about 2 months and pretty much had the same results and sensations as with. I'm not discarding the possibility though. Anyway, what ever your nutritional "thing" is, it's not to be underestimated. Even if there's no proven value, the psychological effects can still be considerable.

For example, I've never observed any significant performance difference if I drink coffee or not. On the contrary, when I'm "on coffee" and skip the morning cup, my performances falter. But during intensive preparation I still cut it out, not as much for the physiological effect, but because that sort of uncompromising attitude helps me maintain a similar "training mindset" through out that period. If I start to make compromises in diet, I pretty much start make them in training also and then the whole thing crumbles and folds.

I'll be very interested in what he has to say about creatine as I'm pretty convinced it makes reasonable difference in cw, a little in dyn and non existent in STA. Bust my myths and save me some money So far that's pretty much the only supplement I'm putting my money on (tried quite a few).

[trux]

Originally Posted by jome

I'll be very interested in what he has to say about creatine ...

The article is now online: http://www.apneanutrition.com/Creatin.pdf

[adolphin]

Originally Posted by trux

There are indeed great differences among people as for lactose tolerance goes, but the experiments described in the document failed to prove any influence of dairy products on mucus build-up even at people who were convinced of the negative effect of milk. They used double blind test with real (lactic) and placebo (lactose-free) beverages.

The document is quite short, so I recommend reading it. The experiments are then described in studies linked at the bottom of the page.

Hi there trux ..

I've read the article sometime a go, and reread it now, I might be reading it wrong but it is saying that : " The review showed that people who believe that milk increases mucus formation are more likely to report changes in sensory perceptions related to mucus after drinking milk than those who don't hold the same belief"

Not only this, but it says also:" In a double trial, symptoms of increased mucus formation were detected by healthy adults after consumption of both cow's milk and a non-milk beverage with similar sensory properities". then the article comes back to the believers and say:" Furthermore, persons who were convinced of mucus formation due to milk consumption showed more respiratory symptoms".

For me, I read it like that:

1. Milk consumption introduce symptoms of increased mucus formation in the respiratory system and sinuses, YES the non-milk beverage the study used had the same effect as well, so what !

2. Those who believed in the "milk is a mucus producer" are more likely to report changes in sensory perception related to mucus after drinking milk, and actually showed more respiratory symptoms.

Unless you guys read the articles listed in the Refernce List (the actual experiments) and getting your information right from there, which I didn't do yet.

[adolphin]

Oh yes! .. except if the secret is all in the word "Symptoms" .. .. as I see, they didn't use the word "Signs" at all in the article, does that mean the researchers didn't actually see any signs of increased mucus production nor signs of congestions ? so it is all about feelings that a person gets when saliva is mixed with the milk (and therfor non-milk that's similar to milk in its properities).

[trux]

Well, it can be also interpreted so that the symptoms at the believers are psychosomatic and that they report them simply because they are persuaded about the effects. And since the study failed to detect any increased mucus secretion, and the same symptoms were reported at both groups (the one consuming real milk, and the other getting just placebo without lactose), it indeed sounds like a very probable conclusion.

[island_sands]

Personally I found a big difference in giving up cow's milk products and also wheat, and also reducing my gluten intake in general.

I went on a boat diving for the weekend once and they served three types of cheese at breakfast which I pounced on (after being good for ages) and it ruined two days of diving, i was totally congested in the ears and throat..

[trux]

Yes, this is exactly what was the subject of the research. As writen above, they failed to prove any difference between the two control groups (one consuming milk, the other consuming placebo). Of course, it does not necessarily mean that dairy products have no impact at all, but the effect may be psychosomatic, or there may be other circumstances that were not studied in this specific research project.

[apneaboy]

one consuming milk, the other consuming placebo

I've never eaten placebo, can you have it on cereal instead of milk?

Or on toast instead of cheese?